Filet Knife Steel Choice

EdCaffreyMS said:
That's essentially the process I've used on AEBL in the past, and compared to my carbon steel blades, it just doesn't display what I would call good cutting performance. The test blades always dulled quickly/easily, were a pain to resharpen, and were certainly what I would call brittle in comparison to my carbon steel blades. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of the AEBL??
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i’m glad I’m not the only one that has trouble sharpening it. I always heard it was dirt simple to sharpen but I sure did have a tough time of it. Also seemed much harder to hand sand then carbon steel. Understandable with stainless but I always heard that AEB-L Behaved similar to carbon steel.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
That's essentially the process I've used on AEBL in the past, and compared to my carbon steel blades, it just doesn't display what I would call good cutting performance. The test blades always dulled quickly/easily, were a pain to resharpen, and were certainly what I would call brittle in comparison to my carbon steel blades. Maybe I'm just expecting too much of the AEBL??
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Something is missing, Ed, because AEBL takes a screaming edge and holds it for a very long time.

You asked about my heat treat. I use that process that Ken posted. Actually I deviate a tiny bit. I put the blades in before the oven gets to temp. I have tried it several ways- putting them in when the oven is cold, putting them in at 1000 deg F, putting them in at temp. I’ve never seen a difference either way. I’m sure a scientist with a microscope could tell but real word results haven’t born it out. AEBL just doesn’t seem finicky to me. I’m wondering if you got a bad run of steel. There’s probably no way to know and I’m just guessing.

I sell everything from hunting knives to edc work knives (fixed and folders), to kitchen knives of all shapes and sizes made from AEBL. Every single customer reports that the knives are the best performing knives they’ve ever owned.

I’m no ancient swordsmith. You’ve all seen my knives. They’re rather basic in design. There’s no secret to anything I do. It’s just good steel and good geometry. Almost all of my customers have become repeat customers.
 
Daniel Macina said:
i’m glad I’m not the only one that has trouble sharpening it. I always heard it was dirt simple to sharpen but I sure did have a tough time of it. Also seemed much harder to hand sand then carbon steel. Understandable with stainless but I always heard that AEB-L Behaved similar to carbon steel.
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OOF. I feel this one. AEBL can be a real pain to sharpen. As in a broaden your vocabulary experience. I have come to the point where it actually is very easy to sharpen, but there are some critical watch-outs and learning them kicked my butt. Hard.

I don’t mean to come across as the AEBL expert. I’m just sharing my experience that came to me over the course of the last 150 knives or so since I started using it almost exclusively.

1. You MUST take your edge to .005 - .010 when grinding bevels. If you don’t you’ll kill yourself trying to get your initial edge on the blade.

2. You MUST get a visible burr on the edge before going up in grits. It’s very easy to assume that the burr went away without you noticing. WRONG!! This steel produces the toughest burr I’ve ever seen. If you don’t get it off, the edge will go from laser sharp to dead dull instantly. That’s not edge failure, that is the wire edge laying over. If you don’t get that wire edge off (the burr) this steel will have you pulling your hair out.

3. The burr looks like ragged foil when belt sharpening. You aren’t done on a given belt until you see that foil burr running away and off the tip as you make a pass.

4. Get an actual edge before you try to convex. You need to drop back in grits if you aren’t getting an edge or a burr. This steel is tough as snot. If there is any flat spot whatsoever along the edge, you aren’t going to get a sharp edge on a slack belt. Forget it. Steepen your angle and grind an actual “ ^ “ edge that has no flat spots. Flat spots look shiny under strong light. If there is any shine on your cutting edge you have a flat spot and you need to grind, not sharpen.

5. Finish on a strop. That pesky burr is no joke. It won’t flake off on its own. You really want to strop. If there’s no burr, AEBL should slice phone book paper like smoke. If it drags in spots you have a burr there.

So, AEBL is almost just like carbon steel except for that persistent burr / wire edge being a pain. Once you know to look for it and to remove it visibly the world becomes a much happier place.

AEBL isn’t unique in any of this. All stainless acts like this. The AEBL burr is just more persistent than usual.
 
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John Wilson said:
2. You MUST get a visible burr on the edge before going up in grits. It’s very easy to assume that the burr went away without you noticing. WRONG!! This steel produces the toughest burr I’ve ever seen. If you don’t get it off, the edge will go from laser sharp to dead dull instantly. That’s not edge failure, that is the wire edge laying over. If you don’t get that wire edge off (the burr) this steel will have you pulling your hair out.
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John hit the nail on the head with his post, especially the quoted part above. Get the burr, deal with burr and AEB-L gets sharp and stays sharp.

Remember, Ed is sorta "magical" with his carbon steel blades - darn he's good. But, I do think AEB-L will do the same once Ed gets the hang of it. There are too many folks singing the praise of AEB-L for it not to be a good steel. From all I've read, and my own experiences I do think it's about the best "bang for buck" in SS out there.

Ken H>
 
OH, there's no doubt what so ever that it's me! There is likely some "little" thing along the way that I'm either just missing, or not doing "right"..... I'll keep chipping away, and maybe get it one of these days. Always up for learning.....so this is just one more of those. THANKS!!!
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
OH, there's no doubt what so ever that it's me! There is likely some "little" thing along the way that I'm either just missing, or not doing "right"..... I'll keep chipping away, and maybe get it one of these days. Always up for learning.....so this is just one more of those. THANKS!!!
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It was your advice in a sharpening post a couple years ago that got me over the hump sharpening AEBL. You mentioned that you like to sharpen on the slack belt, but almost right up against the idler wheel. That was my lightbulb moment, because up until then I was getting good edges- but struggling mightily to do it.

Using that tidbit, I came to my current method through trial and error.

Using the flat platen assembly, I use a 220 grit to get my initial edge by going edge-up right in the crack between the top of the platen and the bottom of the upper idler wheel. I start off pretty doggone steep, maybe even at a 45 if I left the edge on the thick side or if I’m recutting an edge that has chips in it. I get a good, clean ^ shape and then I begin lowering my angle to knock down that 45 corner. Once I’ve got a good edge with no shiny spots under the light, I move to the top of the belt where Ed sharpens, going edge-trailing. Now I’ll start to see that burr form. Once I get a running burr I move up to a 600. (When I say “running burr” I mean that it runs along the edge and jumps off the tip as I make the pass. I make sure I get that on both sides).

On 600 I only use the top like Ed does. If I’m not getting a good edge in a few passes on 600 then I left too much burr at 220 and I drop back to 220 for a few passes, making sure that burr looks like flaky foil with the lightest of passes. As usual, sometimes you have to drag the edge across the corner of the workbench because it won’t break off.
 
John, do you run your grinder in reverse for sharpening? I run in reverse so I can hold the edge up, I can see better that way. With the edge down (grinder running forward) I'm guessing at the edge.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
OH, there's no doubt what so ever that it's me! There is likely some "little" thing along the way that I'm either just missing, or not doing "right"..... I'll keep chipping away, and maybe get it one of these days. Always up for learning.....so this is just one more of those. THANKS!!!
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that's an expensive learning curve, just for kicks I looked at the costs of Stainless, namely CPM 154 CM and those other metals, AEB-L looks to be closer in price to standard steels
 
KenH said:
John, do you run your grinder in reverse for sharpening? I run in reverse so I can hold the edge up, I can see better that way. With the edge down (grinder running forward) I'm guessing at the edge.
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I don’t. That’s why I move the knife to the top (just upstream of the upper idler on the platen assembly) edge down when I’m looking for the burr.

I’ve seen videos of guys running in reverse for sharpening. It looks like a great technique, I just got used to doing it my way and never pursued it because my grinder tracks poorly in reverse and I’m too lazy to line it out just right to fix it.
 
Back to the OPs firs question, take a look at this.. a Nitrogen steel designed for salt water punishment.

Correct heat treating with a full cyro drop that must be held.
 

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I started on this 15N20 filet knife business. Holy cow does this stuff come hard. I opted to go ahead and work through hardness instead of doing any sort of annealing. I had to gouge around on it with portable disc of death to cut a couple out and use the carbide drills, but it should be a pretty easy heat treat. I hope I can grind them. They seem so flimsy compared to all the >.100" stuff I'm used to doing.
 
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