ALL knives, regardless of style, should,,,

Grouser

Well-Known Member
Very new to forging and knife making. I'm guessing there are some unbroken rules that generally apply to every blade regardless of style. Could you list some of those attributes for me? I've heard of things like the point of the knife should be in line with the handle. Are there other things that are a definite "must have" that apply to all knives? Thanks
 
I would avoid the obvious, like the point should face away from the user;). The blade should also be flat which is probably another way of saying that the point should be in line with the handle. About the only other thing I can think of, without being a smart ars is that the steel should be hardenable. Other than that a lot is going to depend on the design and intended use of the knife.

Doug
 
Something that you will hear from almost all makers is to use a known steel. In other words forget about leaf springs, coil springs, etc. This doesn't always apply in blacksmithing, but in knife making you need to know exactly what kind of steel you are dealing with so you can heat treat properly.
 
I will give you one that applies to all types of knives. Be extremely careful of buffers. They do kill! I never heard the details but another maker was recently killed while buffing a knife!!
 
I will give you one that applies to all types of knives. Be extremely careful of buffers. They do kill! I never heard the details but another maker was recently killed while buffing a knife!!
That's not a good thing, safety first always. Condolences to his family
 
These are just a few that I thought of....there are a few exceptions though.

Knife should have good balance.

Knife should be sharp, I know it sounds funny but I have handled some knives that look good but are not sharp. If it leaves your shop...in my opinion...should be able to shave hair off your arm and cut phone book paper.

No "hot spots" in the handle. Should be comfortable to use.

The knife should be designed for the task it is intended for. Size of knife, size of handle, thickness of steel.
Example dont use 3/16" steel to make a fillet knife. Or dont grind an edge down to .010 that is going to be a hard use chopper.

Straight, flat, parallel.....are all key to making any good functional knife from fixed blade to folder.


JP
 
The buffer warning was slightly off-topic and yet most would never think you might be killed using one!

More to the subject. You have been given good advice. Here is another, when you feel like that is the best you can do and you have no desire to improve. Then you are done! When you look at one of your knives and you see the flaws and your mind is working on how to keep that from happening to the next one, well...…… you got the fever then!

I once showed a knife to a MS, th.gifnot knowing he was a master smith!! He looked at it and turned it over and turns and says that is a good user! Little did I know that was the kindest thing he could have said about. The guard was silver soldered on and it showed badly. The handle was walnut but it had a pitiful fit! But I was oblivious to all that! He could have been brutally honest and told me it looked like $@*#! However he let me keep my dignity and then he showed me one of his, and I knew I was out classed a 100 times over.

Most first attempts are like that! You should learn from each and every knife you make! You should strive that each subsequent knife is better than the last!!

After you have a design you like.
Then start with getting it on to the steel of choice!
Grind is a very important factor as well.
Fit and finish if you know it could be better, then you are being honest with yourself!!

I received some advice a while back that you should sketch out your finished knife!! One it gives you a chance to play around with what you the final knife to look like. Most of mine had all been something in my head. The problem with that is you have to work on the fly! Sometimes that is not a bad ability but, with knife making t can leave you boxed into a corner, your not sure how to get out of.

To me a knife should the look that draws you in! It should make you want to handle the knife and once in your hand it feels so good you don't want to put it down!!

Now this is my opinion and many makers do not like doing it but a knife should have a sheath!! Whether you build the sheath or get someone to do it for you. The knife and the sheath are synonymous! They should look like they go together!

One thing you will find out about knifemaking is that there is no one formula. All makers approach doing things in there own way! Also there is now one pat answer for knife making. Steel choice, HT, materials, sheaths all have a whole slew of variables that have to be factored into the making of each knife!!
 
These are just a few that I thought of....there are a few exceptions though.

Knife should have good balance.

Knife should be sharp, I know it sounds funny but I have handled some knives that look good but are not sharp. If it leaves your shop...in my opinion...should be able to shave hair off your arm and cut phone book paper.

No "hot spots" in the handle. Should be comfortable to use.

The knife should be designed for the task it is intended for. Size of knife, size of handle, thickness of steel.
Example dont use 3/16" steel to make a fillet knife. Or dont grind an edge down to .010 that is going to be a hard use chopper.

Straight, flat, parallel.....are all key to making any good functional knife from fixed blade to folder.


JP
And where exactly is that balance point? Does it vary on types of knife and and its use? Thanks for your help
 
The buffer warning was slightly off-topic and yet most would never think you might be killed using one!

More to the subject. You have been given good advice. Here is another, when you feel like that is the best you can do and you have no desire to improve. Then you are done! When you look at one of your knives and you see the flaws and your mind is working on how to keep that from happening to the next one, well...…… you got the fever then!

I once showed a knife to a MS, View attachment 67919not knowing he was a master smith!! He looked at it and turned it over and turns and says that is a good user! Little did I know that was the kindest thing he could have said about. The guard was silver soldered on and it showed badly. The handle was walnut but it had a pitiful fit! But I was oblivious to all that! He could have been brutally honest and told me it looked like $@*#! However he let me keep my dignity and then he showed me one of his, and I knew I was out classed a 100 times over.

Most first attempts are like that! You should learn from each and every knife you make! You should strive that each subsequent knife is better than the last!!

After you have a design you like.
Then start with getting it on to the steel of choice!
Grind is a very important factor as well.
Fit and finish if you know it could be better, then you are being honest with yourself!!

I received some advice a while back that you should sketch out your finished knife!! One it gives you a chance to play around with what you the final knife to look like. Most of mine had all been something in my head. The problem with that is you have to work on the fly! Sometimes that is not a bad ability but, with knife making t can leave you boxed into a corner, your not sure how to get out of.

To me a knife should the look that draws you in! It should make you want to handle the knife and once in your hand it feels so good you don't want to put it down!!

Now this is my opinion and many makers do not like doing it but a knife should have a sheath!! Whether you build the sheath or get someone to do it for you. The knife and the sheath are synonymous! They should look like they go together!

One thing you will find out about knifemaking is that there is no one formula. All makers approach doing things in there own way! Also there is now one pat answer for knife making. Steel choice, HT, materials, sheaths all have a whole slew of variables that have to be factored into the making of each knife!!
Here's an example of a knife that I just got frustrated over. I burnt the steel while making another style blade so this piece came from a failed attempt at another style blade. this thing just looks all out of whack to me. But I can't nail down the problems, one of the reasons I started this post. sorry for the bad pictures please critique the hell out of this thing and tell me why it doesn't please my eye. be brutally honest I can take it.
two of the things that bother me about this blade is how narrow the handle is, and how straight it is0309191009a.jpg
 

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Couple of things I keep in mind for every knife I make:
Ergonomics. I don't particularly care for handles that lock my hand or fingers into one specific position, unless it's a very purpose built piece. Along those lines, I don't like blocky handles or handles with hot spots.

Geometry. I used to make my edges thicker for toughness, but as I've made and used more and more of them, I've started to prefer a thinner edge. Again, build your knives to the purpose you intend for them, but 9x out of 10 I'd rather have thin and sharp than thick and sharp. I also keep the width and length of the blade in mind. Most cutting is done with the first inch or two of the knife. Is the point sharp? Is the forward edge in a good position relative to the hande? I suppose this can tie back into ergos, as it's certainly is part of it, but it's kind of its own thing as well.

Aside from that, the rest mainly boils down to balance and aesthetics.
 
0309191009a-jpg.67920

OK so here is my take. I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to knives.

this thing just looks all out of whack to me. But I can't nail down the problems, one of the reasons I started this post. sorry for the bad pictures please critique the hell out of this thing and tell me why it doesn't please my eye. be brutally honest I can take it.
two of the things that bother me about this blade is how narrow the handle is, and how straight it is

I hope you meant the above statement and please take this as constructive criticism!!

I copied your picture and made some changes! I wish I had a better drawing program than I do so I had to do this in the only method I had to add some lines to the knife!

It appears you have a dagger grind. Save that for a dagger! The area the is commonly called the Ricasso has some grind lines. The entire blade should be finished before you attach the handle!

The handle needs more flare to the back end! I can't believe I am about to do this but I am going to quote a problem that is commonly addressed when on FIF! A skinny handle is hard to hang on to. Especially in a chopping operation! I will say this I love the handle material! A good rule of thumb for a handle is 4 1'2" - 5". It depend on the hand holding the knife!

I like the back edge of the blade to be in line with the top edge of the handle!

I like a drop point on a blade. If you do a drop point and raise the bottom line on the blade. It creates more of a point. That point can be extremely useful on a multipurpose knife!

Take your grind line up close to the back, maybe a 1/4" from the top and make your plunge line straight. Some like to keep it straight but like to angle back towards the point!! If everybody liked the same thing it would be a dull world!!

None of these things I have mentioned are locked in stone! I have seen a dagger grind on a knife, with a handle such as yours! When using a handle like yours I like to keep the back edge. To me I don't like it but diversity is what makes the world go around!!
You have got to like your design if you don't you will never be happy with the finished product. This goes back to a drawing to scale!! It gives you a look at what you are about to create.
There are others on here that have far more experience than I do and they can give you pointers in other directions!! These are a few things that popped out at me!!

Scan_0002.jpg
 
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Couple of things I keep in mind for every knife I make:
Ergonomics. I don't particularly care for handles that lock my hand or fingers into one specific position, unless it's a very purpose built piece. Along those lines, I don't like blocky handles or handles with hot spots.

Geometry. I used to make my edges thicker for toughness, but as I've made and used more and more of them, I've started to prefer a thinner edge. Again, build your knives to the purpose you intend for them, but 9x out of 10 I'd rather have thin and sharp than thick and sharp. I also keep the width and length of the blade in mind. Most cutting is done with the first inch or two of the knife. Is the point sharp? Is the forward edge in a good position relative to the hande? I suppose this can tie back into ergos, as it's certainly is part of it, but it's kind of its own thing as well.

Aside from that, the rest mainly boils down to balance and aesthetics.
I think I'm trying to be too fancy sometimes and get things out of proportion. Thanks for your opinion it helps.
 
OK so here is my take. I am more of a traditionalist when it comes to knives.



I hope you meant the above statement and please take this as constructive criticism!!

I copied your picture and made some changes! I wish I had a better drawing program than I do so I had to do this in the only method I had to add some lines to the knife!

It appears you have a dagger grind. Save that for a dagger! The area the is commonly called the Ricasso has some grind lines. The entire blade should be finished before you attach the handle!

The handle needs more flare to the back end! I can't believe I am about to do this but I am going to quote a problem that is commonly addressed when on FIF! A skinny handle is hard to hang on to. Especially in a chopping operation! I will say this I love the handle material! A good rule of thumb for a handle is 4 1'2" - 5". It depend on the hand holding the knife!

I like the back edge of the blade to be in line with the top edge of the handle!

I like a drop point on a blade. If you do a drop point and raise the bottom line on the blade. It creates more of a point. That point can be extremely useful on a multipurpose knife!

Take your grind line up close to the back, maybe a 1/4" from the top and make your plunge line straight. Some like to keep it straight but like to angle back towards the point!! If everybody liked the same thing it would be a dull world!!

None of these things I have mentioned are locked in stone! I have seen a dagger grind on a knife, with a handle such as yours! When using a handle like yours I like to keep the back edge. To me I don't like it but diversity is what makes the world go around!!
You have got to like your design if you don't you will never be happy with the finished product. This goes back to a drawing to scale!! It gives you a look at what you are about to create.
There are others on here that have far more experience than I do and they can give you pointers in other directions!! These are a few things that popped out at me!!

View attachment 67935
your post was fantastic! Lots of good information I'll be able to use, which is what I was looking for, thank you again.
 
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