Evenheat vs Sugarcreek Ovens???????

Jim Levite

Well-Known Member
I have decided it is time for an oven. Only problem is I can not make up my mind between an Evenheat or a Sugarcreek? From looks I can see the Evenheat is completely encased in Stainless. Where the Sugarcreekseems to be bracketed together. I dont consider that an issue though. Is there a big difference in heating elements, controls? THE TIME IT TAKES TO GET TO TEMP IS A BIG QUESTION?? Is an 18" Evenheat Several hundred $$$ better than a 24" Sugarcreek? Any and all help would be MORE than appreciated.
 
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I have never used the Sugarcreek but my friend Dana has one that is only 115 volts and takes too long to warm up he says. He finially bit the bullet and bought the Even Heat. I have the 18" Even Heat and use it almost daily. Love it. It has the rampmaster II control and is easy to use even for the electonically challenged like myself.
 
I know the 115v units are/were horribly slow. I hate being in limbo over these things. I am looking at an 18" Evenheat for $200 more than a 24" Sugar creek?? If I am looking at say twice the warmup time on a sugar creek than an evenheat I have no problem spending the extra $$.
 
I think you'll find alot of satified owners of both brands. Sugar Creek wasn't really known (or poular for knifemakers maybe) when I got my oven so I was trying to decide between Evenheat and Paragon.

I talked to the Paragon rep at bladeshow and asked him to explain the differences between the two ovens. He said he personally knew the folks at Evenheat and knew they had a quality product and the advantage of the Paragon was in the controller. However he was refering to the Set-pro controller so I ended up going with a KF22.5 Evenheat with rampmaster controller.

I think the same reasoning applies here. If you can get a fully optioned controller on the Sugar Creek it may be worth serious consideration. If the controller isn't the equal to the rampmaster I'd definately go with the Evenheat. As Bruce said I LOVE my oven and use it ALOT. FWIW I use my oven for all my HT stages post forging which is a minimum of 4 normalizations, at least one sub-critical anneal or full anneal (depending on the steel), a hardening cycle, and two tempering cycles. It's VERY easy to program the rampmaster controller but I do however have a program stored in all 12 memory slots so while not necessary I do take advantage of the convenience.

Some advice that I got while researching was this- Get the biggest one you can. You can alway treat small blades in a large oven but you you cant treat large blades in a small oven. An oven is a purchase that's likely to last a LONG time and going for a "starter" oven would be a mistake IMHO.

FWIW I got my Evenheat from USAknifemakers and Tracy made the transaction a breeze. Couldn't be happier with the oven or where I got it.

Take care- Josh
 
Very good info Josh, thank you. I know the makers of Sugar creek have made kilns for a good amount of time. They use an Orton controller? Good, great, just ok? Like I mentioned above. The Evenheat is constructed better but I dont plan on throwing an oven around. Decisions decisions.
 
I looked for info on the Orton controllers and found some on their website.

All their controllers appear to all the needed functions for us knifemakers. I love my Evenheat but in your shoes I'd be very tempted to go with the Sugar Creek and Orton contoller.

Before I made a descision though I'd want to talk to someone who owns one of these controllers. If it programs as easily as the Rampmaster It'd be hard to beat. I could easily live with less memory for storing programs and that seems to be the only real difference.

FWIW I wouldn't worry about the straps at all. The Evenheat also has straps it's just they are spot welded to the stainless on the bottom of the oven instead of going all the way around. Same principle though.

All I can say for sure is I can totally recommend the even heat ;)

Also... Expect some $ for shipping. I think shipping on the oven was $90 some bucks.

Take care, Josh
 
Just thought I'd add this-

One person who owns a Sugar Creek oven is Master Smith John White. I don't know which controller He's got on it though but I'd drop him an e-mail and ask his opinion. An endorsmant from John would set my mind at ease in pulling the trigger on a Sugar Creek.

http://www.johnwhiteknives.com/index.html

Good luck with your purchase ! Josh
 
The 18" Evenheat was my first choice. I am trying to decide if an 18" evenheat is $200 better than a 24" Sugar Creek? From talking to some guys it seems the only difference is how heavy duty they are made. I definately will not be transporting it places so is that a big issue??
 
The 18" Evenheat was my first choice. I am trying to decide if an 18" evenheat is $200 better than a 24" Sugar Creek? From talking to some guys it seems the only difference is how heavy duty they are made. I definately will not be transporting it places so is that a big issue??

I have the 24" kiln from Sugar Creek, and I am impressed with the overall value (features vs. cost).

I do not own, nor have I used, the Evenheat. But were I to require a kiln on a regular basis (read: the need to HT has progressed beyond the "hobby" level), I would give the Evenheat serious consideration.

So I am in the same situation as most here- I own one and not the other, and can only give personal experience based upon the one I own.
But some of your questions can be answered in much the same way as you compare anything else- look at the manufacturer's specifications.

In simplest terms, performance of an electric kiln basically follows the same principle as designing and building a gas forge.
A given chamber size will require a certain amount of energy to attain a specified temperature. So if you want to have a bigger forge, you need a larger burner (or multiple smaller burners strategically placed).
But kilns are enclosed, providing the insulative properties needed for best efficiency (least amount of energy needed to attain/maintain the temperature).
This is why the small kilns can still reach 1800+F despite the seemingly low electrical requirements. But they take time to get there.

Probably the best analogy is to think in terms of automobile performance.
As an example, if you have a 5500# pickup truck that does 0-60 mph in eight seconds, you know it would no longer do that if you increased the load, such as adding an extra 1000 pounds to the back.
Even with the increased load, the truck obviously still has enough power to reach 60 mph; it just takes it longer to get there.
If you still want to hit 60 mph in 8 seconds with the heavy load, you need more power.

"Great, now tell me something I don't know." Well, the same concept applies to your kiln comparisons.
You have a specified temperature you're trying to reach (e.g., 2000 F); this is the 60 mph goal in the pickup truck.
The electrical specs for each kiln can easily be compared to power output in the pickup.
The chamber size for each kiln can be likened to the load in the pickup; a larger chamber is compared to adding more weight to the truck.

So let's see what type of insight we can glean from the manufacturers.
Both will attain your temperature, but you want an idea which gets there faster.
The Sugar Creek has a chamber volume of 1260 cubic inches, while the volume for the Evenheat is 1170 cubic inches. So the Sugar Creek has about 8% more "weight in the bed".
Now let's "look under the hood". Output for the Sugar Creek is 2530 watts (230 volts x 11 amps); output for the Evenheat is 3120 watts (240 volts x 13 amps).
Given that the Evenheat has a "bigger engine with a lighter payload", there is no doubt that the Evenheat is the winner in terms of speed.

But what about other factors (besides $$) that may influence your decision?
Controllers are certainly a valid point. I started with the "dial" control, and soon upgraded to the Orton controller. MUCH better.
I can't speak for the controllers on the Evenheat, but from what I've studied from the manufacturer, it seems the same as anything else- more options = more $$, and more convenience (easier programming) = more $$.
In a nutshell, the type of controller you want is going to be determined by the types of HT schedules you need and how much convenience you want.
The Orton controller has served me well. I have no problems with it, and this is coming from a person who has to have his 9-year-old daughter show him how to take pictures with a cell phone.

How often do you plan on using the kiln?
I don't make stuff specifically to sell to others. I make stuff for my own needs at my own pace, so production (quicker ramp times) was not a concern to me. That meant a few hundred dollars saved to go for more steel, etc.
But if I were really pushing blades out of the shop, the ability of the kiln to handle high volume would certainly be an influence.

What are your requirements for chamber dimensions?
The extra length on the Sugar Creek is nice to have.
For that matter, if you're willing to spend the extra couple hundred for the increased performance of the Evenheat, but need/like the increased length of the Sugar Creek, then don't forget that the Evenheat KF 22.5 is only about $55 more than the KF 18 and it has greater output to handle the increased chamber volume (3600 watts for the Kf 22.5 versus 3120 watts for the KF 18).

Other stuff?
Differences in door design is evident. The Sugar Creek lifts up, the Evenheat opens to the side. Take your pick; you need to be wearing heat protection irregardless.
One precaution with the lift-up design is that you need to be careful closing the door; don't let it slam shut (it has a spring to keep it closed).
I have heard some people mention that they have a fear of the lift-up door falling shut. I fail to see how that is an issue, as the swing is greater than 180 degrees.

Heavy duty?
Can't really say since I only own the Sugar Creek. The construction is solid. You would have to really put some weight on it or bang it around before it became an issue.
One obvious advantage the Evenheat has is that it appears to sit on an actual stand instead of four legs attached to the body. Sturdier, but hardly a concern unless the Evenheat weighs considerably more.
My Sugar Creek weighs somewhere between 50-75#, and it gets moved from the little storage corner in the back up to the workbench when the time comes to use it.
I think when it comes to this stuff, your electronics are more sensitive to abuse than the rest of the unit.


I can certainly see where it's tough to make a decision.
The Evenheat has better performance; is it enough to make it worth the couple hundred extra? Probably so, provided you need that performance.
Whereas the Sugar Creek is initially better on the budget while serving the needs of the majority of nonprofessionals (and probably some professionals as well).


Other members here own the Big Knife kiln by Sugar Creek. (Rex, where are you?)

Chevy.
Ford.
Dodge.
Just like Josh said, you'll find satisfied owners of each.


Good Luck,
Rob
 
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That's some write up, thanks Rob. I am just a weekend knifemaker so I should probally not think twice about getting the Sugar Creek? Decisions like this suck but I guess it is nice to have choices.
 
That was a great post Rob.

I've seen this question of "how long does it take to get to temp" asked alot in the past so I timed my oven one time just to see-

48 minutes to hit 1525 degrees from room temp. It'd be cool if we got a Sugar Creek Big Kiln owner to to do the same for a head to head comparison.

This is my exact oven-
http://www.usaknifemaker.com/evenheat-kf-225-10wx65hx225d-w-rampmaster-control-240v-p-1388.html


Someday in the future I may make a go at being a full time knifemaker and I've often thought It'd be nice to have a second oven for tempering. So if I get to the point where I was going to get a second oven what would I do... Hands down I'd get another Evenheat.

I wouldn't blink at the extra $379.90 for a tool thats going to most likely last your entire life (with maintanence of course). A knife sale or two more for a lifetime is a pretty cheap price to pay IMHO.

-Josh
 
Whichever I choose I would hope it would last me my lifetime (with maintenance of coarse). It is not the point of "I can't afford it". But more of "do I really need to spend extra"?
 
I have a Sugar Creek 24" with the infinite dial set up. I also recently aquired the controller and SSR to switch it over. Right out of the box I timed it to reach 1475 for an O-1 blade and that took 45 minutes. Getting it up to 1850 for A2 was an hour and 15 minutes. I imagine ambient temp has an effect on time/heat. Reaching those temps in that time requires turning the dial full on and checking it often to adjust the dial to sneak up on your target temp. Doing stainless can try your patience making it ramp to soak temps. It gets tedious ,so try to get the controller model right off the bat. I tried outsmarting it by marking the dial with known target temps, but from day to day it's performance changed and still required babysitting. Aside from that it's performed well over the last 3 years, it's a solid machine. I mounted mine on a rolling stainless cart so there's no trips to the hospital for another hernia.

Rudy
 
Thanks Rudy. Reguardless of which brand I buy it will have the electronics on it. That part was an easy decision.
 
My post may have sounded like a big gripe session but before I got the kiln I was restricted to types of steels I could play with. I did everything in my forge. The kiln really opened up my horizons and don't regret buying it. I just outgrew that flambaster control it came with.

Good luck,
Rudy
 
I've got the sugar creek in the 24 inch. Electronic control 220 volt...........absolutely no problems. Easy folks to deal with, the hardest thing about this oven is unpacking it.
 
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