Flatters???

h0tr0d

h0tr0d

Well-Known Member
I watched a youtube video entitled "forging a bowie" by this cat named Brent and he used what seemed to be a flatter and did overlapping strikes to smooth the knife out. Is this something alot of makers do? I've been looking at this hammer, it comes in short handle and long handle and two different sizes..

http://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/Tem.../Products/Forging_Tools_misc/Flatter_-_Square

Can anyone give me some insight as to whether or not this will be "that" useful. BTW, I have some $$hitty hammer control still. I can get through a forging session and not create really nasty hammer marks but still not "silky smooth" and truing up a piece is hard for me as I dont work off an anvil but a homemade anvil that's face is only 4x4.

Thanks,
christopher

christopher.ford12@ us.army.mil (space left intentionally)
h0tr0dusn@ gmail.com (ditto)
 
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well, basically what it does is give you a hammer with a larger face so you don't have as many dimples and ridges on the work, so if you want to use it to make smoother flats it'll probably be nice if your doing allot of forging and want to skip out on allot of grinding
 
Christopher,

I use flatters quite often and I do not use them as hammers. The way I was taught to use them is they are to be struck with a hammer, I usually use a 6 pound sledge. If you do not have good hammer control ( ie. hammer marks) this will not even out a piece for you, it is manly used for straightening stock out. The handle ergonomics are bad for swinging as a hammer on most of them but it a try may work just fine.
 
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well looking back at the video i believe he was striking it with another hammer, but it's off screen so i digress :) my hammer control lies in drawing out the steel for the handle area and not hitting the ricasso because i use a cross peen to make ridges and then the other side to move the steel out away from the ricasso. Then, when making the edge bevels i usually do alright save one or two small spots...but should i be going full blown on the bevels taking the edge down to 1/8" or so before any grinding is done or should I get the basic shape through forging and finish it all up on a grinder?
 
Christopher,

On the tang and even the bevels till you can get better with hammer control you can make a guillotine, here is one Ray Richards made and gave to Tai Goo. He named it Godzilla. You can see what can be done with one.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=738137&highlight=godzilla

I forge my cutting edges down to under 1/8" more like .060 thick, but you will have to judge this based on your skill and allow you to do your post heat treat clean up.
 
The best way to find out is to get a flatter and try it out. Just like any other tool, it might work for someone else but not fit your style of working. Probably a big reason behind why so many blacksmiths have a large collection of tools. Mike is right, flatters and the similiar set hammers are not hammers but tools that are struck by a hammers.

Doug Lester
 
thanks gang, i've seen Godzilla and have been contemplating making one, but with no real anvil, i'm forced to use such a small work face that i'd have to place it on the ground or on a stump to even use something similar. Also, was just forging on a new piece of steel and after i forged the tip for a bowie, i dropped it as i've seen done so many times, but when i set the choil, the whole piece looked completely offset. like a step down from the true flat bar down to the knife instead of making the choil it just curved up the entire piece from where teh choil should be out to the tip. I've tried straightening it with a BFS (big freakin' stick) and also with a 4 lb hammer but with no avail...any ideas? I'm doing my best to get squared away to where I can attend a few blacksmithing classes in Jan/Feb and go visit Larry Harley for a weekend or two as well.
 
73071_164643743570206_100000737453193_360644_7675447_n.jpg


that's what i'm dealing with...btw.
 
I am trying to figure out what you are attempting from the photo. Is this going to be a hidden or through tang? Or a full tang knife? If what I believe you are trying to forge out is the narrowed down area in front of the guard. If so I do not heat the tip of the blade I heat the tang end and put the spine on the anvil and forge it in mostly then use the edge of the anvil to clean it up. Some times I just use the corner of the anvil. Make sure the steel is hot in this area or it will just twist and distort similar to what you have in the picture.

The picture looks like you tried to use a rounded edge and struck off anvil which just bent the piece, just guessing.

I would suggest you find a smith close to you and pay them a visit. You are always welcome at my shop but it may take a few days drive to get here ;).

If you need to call me it is easier to talk about this stuff than type it IMHO.

This may help me also, can you post a picture of your set up anvil set up and such.
 
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Hmmm Full tang your making it hard on yourself, do you have a sketch. Just curious how you intend to transition where the guard/ bolsters will be? OK Tomorrow I will forge one and take pics for you but it will be like the pic from my website.
 
alright, thanks. no sketches, just imagining what a medium 5" in. blade bowie would look like full tanged. Mike, i was thinking that i'd come back from the flats of the ricasso and make it tapered to the back and front and curve the handle area slightly for ergonomics thus almost making a finger groove like a small flowing hump. something like this kinda....

74202_164644240236823_100000737453193_360653_1945343_n.jpg
 
forgot to mention that there won't be a guard or bolster, just green canvas slabs and black liners. i try to over complicate things usually thus why i think i'm having such a hard time here.
 
I'm assuming that you want to get the handle back in line with the spine of the blade. If that is the case try to heat the knife where it takes the curve leaving the areas in front and back at a black heat. Then put the spine on the face of your anvil and drive the steel down until it's even. The trick here is to try just to heat the steel that you want to move.

Doug Lester
 
Thanks Doug, I'll give that a try in the morning.

Mike,

Here is a pic of the only sketch i've done so far. It's a little advanced for me at this moment :)

73619_164685713566009_100000737453193_361010_5232855_n.jpg
 
If you are talking about the plunge line where the blade meets the beginning of the ricasso, it is usually ground down on a belt grinder or filed by hand. The flatter is usually used to just straighten. When making a hidden tang knife, a fuller is used to begin developing the tang. When you use the fuller, you might get a raised area at the back of the ricasso. The flatter will take the raised area back down and ensure your ricasso is flat. It's handy to have, but not a required tool. Hammer control is much better.
 
I have been working the step where the blade transitions after I work the blade bevels in, After I finish the blade start drawing out the tang. I but the transition area right up to the edge of the anvil with the blade facing down at the ground and give her a few whacks, its straitens up the riccaso well and pronounces the blade. I'm new so i don't know if its the right way but it works pretty good. The stocks is slightly narrower then its original width when im done but not by much.
 
I use a flatter once I have my tang profiled. The blade bevels have been started and the blade is to @ 50% forged. Then I start on the tang and work my way up to the ricasso doing bothe sides. This "sets" the tang and ricasso on the same line. Then work the rest of the blade with my regular hammer. I also use the flatter with another hammer. Its a nitch tool for me, but one I use on every knife I make. If you buy them used, or new for that matter, be sure they are absolutly flat! Dont ask me why I say this!! Also remember that any nick or blemish in your flatter or hammer face will be transfered to your work.

God Bless
Mike
 
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