Hydraulic forging press advice

D

DuxHavenForge

Member
Hi guys,
I'm looking for some advice on hydraulic forging press designs. I'm going to build the press myself so i'm looking for simplicity in design. I was wondering if anybody out there has any designs or advice they may be interested in sharing. I am planning on using a 5in ram, hoping to get 30 tons or so. I pretty much have the hydraulics figured out, but am looking for the frame design and dimensions. Thanks in advance

Jeremy Hebert
 
I built a Batson H press. Pretty straight forward and I am happy with it. The Batson press has the hydraulic cylinder at the bottom and pushes the ram up to squeeze. This helps make it a bit shorter, a bit more stable so you can move it around. I have metal wheels welded onto the bottom so we can wheel it where we need it. One of the blacksmith sites sells the plans.
 
Whatever you think about the design of the frame.....DOUBLE IT! (size/thickness of materials) Recently I've seen a few pics around the web of folks building forging presses with steel tubing......bad idea. Most folks simply do not realize the forces you're dealing with in a forging press.... unlike a "regular" press that you woud see in a machine shop or similar, which are only used occassionally, and for just a couple of cycles per job, a forging press is subjected to constant cycles, and a great deal of heating and cooling, which equates to infinetly more stress.

I cut my teeth on a "C" frame press, of 24-30 tons..... I quickly broke the frame on that press, and ended up rebuilding it with a 12" "I" beam that has 3/4" web, and 1/2" flanges..... I still had to install 1/2 gusset plates on one face, and both sides to prevent that "I" beam from flexing during use. Just to give you an idea of how much stress forging presses endure....when I rebuilt the frame on mine, I used nearly 50 pounds of 5/16" welding rod (because my MIG simply wouldn't handle the job), and I still had instaces where I had to go back and re-enforce a few things.

Frame design needs to be based on the cylinder.... as far as the stroke of the cylinder dictates. The "H" frame design is the most rigid, but requires about 2X the material of a "C" frame. The plus side of a "C" frame is that its much easier to see what you're doing, and you have a 180 degree arc that you can work within. The down side of the "C" frame is that its design is less rigid, and therefore needs to be "beefed up" to counter the flex.
 
Thanks for the replies guys. I have seen dr batsons plans and right now that's the one i'm leaning towards. He pretty much does all of the figuring for you from what I've seen. Id like to see more info on the c frame though. i'm gonna do a little more research first before I make up my mind. Shop space is limited, so something with the smaller footprint the better.
 
Jeremy, I'm in the process of getting things started on my press but, being poor, (←= children), so my plan has many different goals.
I tell you what, email me at d_r_f_1@yahoo.com, I've already done a lot of the footwork THAT YOU probably NEED! Or at least would like!
The plan I have is the BEST as far as its footprint, meaning the smallest! And the power is basically unlimited depending how much you are
willing to spend on materials! You can have the same style press be 10 tons or 60 tons! It all depends on how well built it's!
Shoot me an email, and I'll share EVERYTHING I HAVE AT THIS POINT!
Rex
 
I got to talking with a maker at the recent Seattle show and sharing some shop pics on our phones. His press was really interesting. I'd never seen one like he built. It uses the C frame model of the I beam, but makes it an H frame. He got a pretty sizable I beam and then cut out some of the webbing. This created his "window" to pass steel through and attached his ram, dies, etc to the webbing at the top and bottom of the window. He also had it on some serious wheels so it was mobile. It's more limited than a larger H frame that would allow for a bit of side to side angling of the material you're working-you've only got the smaller window cut out. But, on the up side, the foot print is much smaller like the C frame and you gain rigidity because there's no "open" side as in the more common design where the ram and dies are mounted on the side of the I beam (making the beam want to flex as the pressure increases). If you have a scrap yard around that has odd size pieces of I beam, and can find one with the right dimensions, I think this one could be a good design.

Jeremy
 
That is a brilliant idea. I'm going to do some research on this design. Thanks for sharing it with me!

Jeremy Hebert
Duxhaven Forge
 
DuxHavenForge not trying to steel your thread this may help you. I was looking at this press and was wandering if anyone would now if it would
work its a good price and I don't have a welder. Would it be a good place to start?
 

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Honestly, it looks pretty light gauge to work as a forging press. I suspect it would work for very light, and limited amounts of forging, but also think it would quickly fatigue/fail under the repetitive stress and heat that a forging press goes through. Not trying to sound like a butthead, but my gut tells me that with that light gauge material, its not a matter of "if", but a matter of "when" that would fail. Its difficult to explain in words just how harsh the forging process is on these types of machines, but I'll put it this way...... its just plain brutal, and I don't think its possible to overbuild a forging press
 
Yes ED was thinking same thing, But on the other hand like I said to start out with think it might be easier for me or others to beef it up some rather then building my own as I am a hobby maker maybe 15 to 30 a year from what I see parts would run as much as this one. And time and a welder I do not have :(
Is there any functional piece on this one that would make it bad for pressing Damascus? Or unreasonably hard to make work?
Or is there a better one you can think of to start with?
 
Or you could buy yourself a 30 Ton Log Splitter. Everything is there. Just need to make some dies. Of course you need about $1200.00:9:
 
Franklin, I don't want to come off negative and condescending, so please don't take this post poorly. First, 15-30 knives a year is beyond the "hobby maker" in my book, and you should have a press that is designed to do what you want it to do. There are a lot of tools I will build myself in order to save a buck or two, but something that could kill me easily if it would fail is a whole nuther subject. When I was looking to buy a press I did a lot of shopping and reading and talking to knife makers who had been using presses for a long time. My advice is to take Ed Caffrey's advice. Don't mess around trying to turn an inappropriate tool into an appropriate one. If you don't have the time and money to do it right now, how are you going to find the time and money to fix it later? You might find someone who is selling a decent press in order to raise cash to upgrade to a better one. That's what I did. Isn't there a forum here for that kind of stuff?
 
the tire hammer plans from Clay arrived today. After a 30 second glance they look very complete and well written. Not sure when I'll be able to get to it but I can now start accumulating parts/metal for the project.
 
Well, Boss, thanks for mentioning the tire hammer plans. I've bought plans before and then felt kind of ripped off. Sounds like these aren't too bad, I'll order a set too.
 
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