Know the weight of this peter wright anvil

bubba-san

Well-Known Member
I just picked this up today on a trade for an 86 toyota pick up that has no bed but runs like a top . Does any one know the weight of this one . He had one twice as big but, he sold it . Low and behold he had another one ! Came with tools, hammers coke forge, with crank Blower , numbers on anvil read 3 0 24 ? know the age and date ? anvil still has nice ring to it . Bubba
 
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Bubba,

Pretty difficult for me to get an idea of dimensions by the photos, but if the numbers are an indicator of weight, that's a massive anvil.
And to think he had one nearly twice as large?!

English anvils (like Peter Wright) used the hundredweight system to identify weight.
1st number identifies how many hundredweight (112 pounds).
2nd number identifies the quarter hundredweight (28 pounds).
3rd number identifies actual remaining pounds.

Multiply each, then add all together for the total.

In your case,
3 x 112 = 336#
0 x 28 = 0#
24 = 24#

336+0+24= 360 pounds


That's a very good find, as the Peter Wrights in the larger sizes are getting difficult to find, especially one in as good condition as the photos show.

By no means am I even close to being an expert on anvils, so I can't help with age.
But every PW anvil I've come across has used the hundredweight system to identify weight. (Look closely and you can probably see dots between the numbers. Some American anvils also used the same system to identify weight, but may have used dashes instead of dots.)

For more info, check out this thread:
http://knifedogs.com/showthread.php?18029-Help-identify-this-anvil


Congrats!
 
Its a big one ! yes he had one that 3x that big , no name though ,that I could find ? Pretty sure Tom Clark made it. He sold it for 1000 $ I also got a great coal / coke forge with working hand crank blower and a bunch of tools. The old man died and left it to his sons. Even If would have bought the big one ,The only way I could pick it up would be tractor with front loader and I live seven miles away. 360 # is more than twice as big as mine at 150 lb. LOL Thanks for info Fellers I appreciate Bubba
 
Its a big one ! yes he had one that 3x that big , no name though ,that I could find ? Pretty sure Tom Clark made it. He sold it for 1000 $ I also got a great coal / coke forge with working hand crank blower and a bunch of tools. The old man died and left it to his sons. Even If would have bought the big one ,The only way I could pick it up would be tractor with front loader and I live seven miles away. 360 # is more than twice as big as mine at 150 lb. LOL Thanks for info Fellers I appreciate Bubba

7 miles on a tractor might have been worth it!
When I was a boy, I regularly drove the old Massey or the Farmall over 6 miles of highway from the melon fields to the "loading area" (a huge old tree at the farm under which we pulled the TTs for loading).
Much would depend on the route specifics from beginning to end; this was obviously a rural area with little traffic, and no interference from any "authorities".
Plus, "rules and regulations" can change a lot in 30+ years!

Still, no big loss. It looks like the "smaller one" will satisfy all your needs anyways!
Really depends on the type of work you do the majority of the time. Obviously bigger is rarely a bad thing with this type of stuff, but the two key components to consider seem to be the amount of abuse to which the anvil is subjected, and the design specifics of the anvil itself.

So I guess, as always, it all depends on the variety of work done. Regardless, it looks like you're set. :drool:

Rob
 
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Yep, I drive my tractor all over the place , but the sherrif down here is really insistent that no tractors on public roads ? I live in the sticks ? By the way on a different subject , Have you used 1541 H steel for hammers . I also got that from tom Clark . Its used for race car axles . Highley alloyed with manganese for thru hardening . Also used for power hammer heads and regular hammers , I wonder how hard it is to work . I know its High temp steel by the "H" designation . I tried to price some , for a 2 foot piece 2" round 345 $ or try and find a big military old truck they use on military vehicles and the M1 abrams tanks axles .
Bubba
 
Bubba,
You're forcing me to think back over 20 years! Like most I hung around with, weekend drag racing, offroad 4x4s, and tractor pulling consumed much of my youth (and $$). Had to call some guys I didn't know were still in the area for this one.
Never worked with the 1541H before, at least not outside the form it was already in (axle).
But I don't see why it wouldn't make a good starting point for further experimentation; probably something I need to check into myself.

It is widely used in aftermarket axles due to the fact that, properly treated, it can provide about 25% more strength versus the standard 1040.
The "standard" for OEM axle material was 1040, sometimes possibly 1050.
Reading between the lines is often dangerous, but simply put, 1541H is a steel with same approximate carbon content as 1040, with added manganese.
As you suggested, the manganese does allow deeper hardening than carbon alone. For the most part, axles are not hardened completely through (unless we have an alloy steel). The deeper the hardening effect, the stronger the axle.

This allows a stronger part without making the part physically larger. Increased mass (larger axle diameter) is the first logical answer; compare a passenger car to anything made for abuse (HD truck, tractor, etc.) and that becomes obvious.
But in a performance application a physically larger part also means the penalty of increased weight.
Plus, having to work within the physical confines of an existing housing and axle tube design means you can only go so much bigger before you are forced to go "better".
For applications requiring even more strength than the 1541H, steels like 4140 & 4340 (chromemoly) are used.
I suppose there is also the possibility that an OEM could have used 1541H for certain applications as well, but I don't currently know of any specific instances. (Not that none have, just that I don't know.)
I can certainly see where it would be applicable to military vehicle use.

Keep in mind that 1541H is an SAE designation. I say this because, to the best of my knowledge, the "H" suffix denotes that the steel satisfies hardenability requirements, and is not necessarily an indicator that the steel was intended specifically for hot work.
Sounds confusing; after all, most of us are familiar with hot work steels like H13! But in those instances, the H is a prefix (in front of numerical identifier).

So essentially we're talking about a carbon-manganese steel, yet not quite an actual alloy steel. But the high manganese content allows response to heat treatment like alloys (deeper hardening, improved strength) so SAE moved steels like this from the 10xx series and gave them the designation of 15xx.
Still, from what I understand, 1541H is still marketed as a carbon steel, even though it in many ways behaves similar to an alloy.

How easy is it to work for your purpose? Well, axles made out of it are usually drop forged and induction hardened.
I don't see where it's anything you couldn't handle; after all, it's not like you're forging an air-hardening steel.

If you have access to a track nearby, a budget racer can probably find you a broken axle to experiment with. The weekend bracket racer, street/strip type is who I would check with first. (Most of the "big boys" are running chromemoly axles out of necessity.)
Another source is the guys running the offroad driveline shops. Tall tires place tremendous demands on axles, and most of the aftermarket replacements are 1541H. Even with the increased strength, it's common to face a broken axle every season. If such a shop can't find you a sample, at they very least they should be able to offer guidance on working characteristics.

A deeper hardening 1040? hmmm...:les:


Rob

edit to add: Much of the information concerning the steel was sourced from a guy who used to build chassis for me. I also contacted the owner of a local driveline shop, and both seem to be on the "same page". Both also admitted that, although they've never done it, the material would probably be good for a hammer.
If you need more, let me know; I'll see what I can dig up.
 
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Thanks buddy , I use to race cars back in the 60's and 70's I bought a brand new 68 Hemi roadrunner it was the 3rd or 4th one made ! with bare essentail's no radio , ac , bench seats and faster than hell . I turned a 11.38 with a few mods like M&H wrinkle walls, and mechanical advance distributer and 4.56 rear end . I imagine one of them are going for big bucks now . I paid $3125. included lic. tax and plates . those were the good ol days for sure ...... Bubba
 
I still miss my 68 Roadrunner, bought in '74. 383, bench seats, am radio and Petty blue. First car was a '65 Barracuda with 318, bucket seats and push button automatic. lol.

sorry for the stumble down memory lane.

Rudy
 
Nothing wrong with occasional trip down memory lane, Rudy.

1st for me was 1964 Mustang fastback; totaled it beyond any reasonable repair. Let's say it was a learning experience in exceeding limits of suspension design.
Next up was a '67 Malibu SS. Liked it better because I was familiar with working on Chevys. Both daily driver and weekend racer for 2 years until someone made an offer I couldn't pass up.

When it was "time to grow up", meaning a regular passenger car for daily driving and pickup for work duty, I learned to keep my foot out of the pedal (somewhat).
But I also got the "sleeper" bug. You know, wolf in sheep's clothing deal. So I saved up and bought my uncles '69 2-door Impala. Rough-looking as all get-out. Pulled the 350 out of it and put a "454" in it. The 454 is in parentheses because it wasn't truly a 454; it was stroked to 496! Needed the extra cubes for torque; that was a heavy car! Nice thing about displacement is that radically wild cams weren't needed- even better for the sleeper effect.

Not that I ever raced anywhere other than the track :nothing:, but that car won enough money to completely pay for itself- plates, insurance, gas, maintenance.
Everything was great until the other guys learned about traction, then I was stuck. I was already as large as I could go on tire size, because of the factory frame rails.
Didn't want to install a rear clip; if I did that, then it certainly wouldn't be a sleeper any more, and it was too big for a track-only car.
Still, that car was the best "grocery getter" I've ever had. Ended up pulling the drivetrain and selling the car to a young kid who wanted to build a "lowrider".

Bought a '76 Vega and made it a track-only car. (Switched back over to small blocks.)
Then I got to find out how truly expensive our hobbies can get.

Yeah, I miss the good 'ole days, too.
 
great stories you guys , I still have a semi race truck . a 2010 5.7 litre tundra has performance chip, tuned exhaust . from factory its rated at 380 hp on the wheel dyno with the modifications its around 425 HP . too bad it weighs 6500 lbs . Its top end is unknown , I am afraid to go that fast anymore . I still love them fast cars ,trucks, no matter what kind they are . I too miss the good ol days . this thing cost over 44,000 $.... Bubba
 
Had a '66 Malibu/ 327 four speed...then a '64 Nova/ 327 four speed.Couldn't keep rear ends in it...then 69 Dodge Charger/340 B&M hydro . You're right, the good old days. Now I just invest in gas.

Rudy
 
I used to have for a short time before it was stolen a 69 Yenko Camaro 396 - 425 HP , I could not keep it on the ground or keep rear ends, 3rd member in it . Very few of the 396 CI - 425 hp were made . hard to keep them together , but when they were right it would almost fly .
 
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