Leather Sewing machines, quesions...

[McClellan Made Blades]

A quick question about leather sewing machines, or should I say sewing machines heavy duty enough to sew leather. I've been looking at older sewing machines, like the
Singer 96K40, when I Googled it almost all of the descriptions of this machine say, "Industrial Leather Sewing Machine", the costs of these older machines are not even a 1/4 of something like the Tippman Boss, or Artisan. I've seen some from 200.00 to 400.00, and some were lower than 200 but not in as good a shape. My leather guy at Tandy told me a while back that the older machines would sew leather if they had metal gears and not plastic. I think the other requirement is a "walking foot", so it will raise high enough to allow for sheath sized thickness. If anyone currently uses one or has in the past and can give me some advice on this, mostly which older machine you used successfully and if there wa a certain type that didn't perform very well. I'd sure appreciate it, Thanks! Rex

 

[Paul Long]

First of all sewing something the thickness of the average sheath will require a Stitcher and not just a sewing machine. Most of the flat bed machines, even the "industrial strength" will only digest 3/8" maximum and many not even that much. Based on the going prices out there that I have noticed on used stitchers, the Tippman is the least expensive, particularly if you can find a good used one, but still expect to pay about $700+. That puts you about half way to an
Artisan 3000 or a Cobra Class 2.

The average $200 to $500 used walking foot flat bed will be a disappointment to you because of the lack of capacity for thickness and sufficient torque to get the job done.

Paul

 

[antleygd]

Get a "Boss" I did. I looked at all those HD sewing machines. I have an industral machine but it did not even come close to handling my leather work. I have had my "Boss" for about 6 months now. Thought I would never pay for it, BUT I only need something like 10 more cases and she is free and clear!

 

[Paul Long]

I believe if you can sell about ten sheaths a month on average, a good new stitcher (Artisan, Cobra etc.) will amortize it's cost fairly quickly. More sheaths, even more quickly. I got both my machines long before the prices went down and they have been "paid for" for years. They really do increase your production capability at an amazing rate.

Paul

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

First of all sewing something the thickness of the average sheath will require a Stitcher and not just a sewing machine. Most of the flat bed machines, even the "industrial strength" will only digest 3/8" maximum and many not even that much. Based on the going prices out there that I have noticed on used stitchers, the Tippman is the least expensive, particularly if you can find a good used one, but still expect to pay about $700+. That puts you about half way to an
Artisan 3000 or a Cobra Class 2.

The average $200 to $500 used walking foot flat bed will be a disappointment to you because of the lack of capacity for thickness and sufficient torque to get the job done.

Paul

Thanks everyone,
That is the same informaton I found last night on a leather sewing forum (who knew there was such a thing?) I guess I will keep saving to see if I can find the right machine for the right job! I ALMOST fell for the clever (read lieing) eBayers trying ot unload machines that won't do what they claim!

So what is the best choice, for the money, out there of all of the different brands, this is something I know nothing about. I have heard of the Tippman and vaguely remember something about the Artisan at Blade a couple of years ago. I don't remember seeing it, I only saw the sign from a distance. Thanks for the help, Rex

 

[Paul Long]

Rex, I would encourage you to go the the web sites of both Artisan and Cobra (Google is your friend). I am most familiar with the Artisan brand, but the Cobra machines are almost identical if not exactly identical. Even though I own Artisan, I can vouch for the level of customer service you can expect from Cobra, and it is top notch. The Artisan Toro 3000 and the equivalent Cobra is probably what you should be looking for. Either will handle 3/4" thickness easily and maybe even 7/8". Talk to Steve or Dave at Cobra for some good guidance.

The Tippmann is a good little manual machine and it is what I first started with. The only kicker there is the new price of the Boss is quite a long way toward the price of the powered machines, which if you stay with it long enough you will eventually buy any way.

Feel free to call me if you want to discuss further.

Paul

 

[Sandy Morrissey]

I, as Paul, have had both the Boss and the Artisan 3000--and was pleased with the first and ecstatic with the second!! The Artisan is now offering the 3200 model which has a throat several inches greater than the 3000 and may be a better buy if the price differential is not too great. Both the Artisan and the Cobra are fathered by Toro----quality! -Sandy-

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

Feel free to call me if you want to discuss further.

Paul

Thanks Paul and Sandy, I've decided to (try) save up for the right machine, I found a leather sewing forum similar to KD, there is a fella on there that spelled it out, well enough for even me to understand. He stated that "Industrial" and "Heavey Duty" are basically buzz words that the eBayers use to sell their machines to unsuspecting people just like me! Fortunatley, for me I don't spend large quantities of money on snap purchase decisions. I guess it's a good thing money is running a little tight right now with the home building going on. If it weren't for that, I may have acted a bit too quickly!

Any idea how much the Cobra runs? Also how do the warranties between the Cobra and Artisan compare? My wife is the sewer (is that a word?) in the family, she makes kids clothes and makes some cool stuff, once I get the right machine, I'm sure she can help me dial it in....if she lets me that is! I really appreciate all of y'alls help and advice, it will be a while before I can make the leap for the machine I really need, unless I run across a fire sale, or maybe a close out. Do they ever sell refurbished leather machines? Also, are there any web sites that sell any leather sewing machines capable of sewing 3/4" that y'all recommend? THANKS to EVERYONE for all the HELP!!! I'm sure I'll need more in the future.

 

[Chef Niloc]

To shed a less experienced, hobbyist point of view. I think my 1st post ever here was just about the same as yours. The pro's here are telling you the truth, they told me to save my money and more importantly to practice my hand stitching me being very new to leather working at the time ( I'm still new, just not as new). I did just that but one day not that long ago I came across a shoe shop by my house that was going out of business. I could not help my self, I still had the pro's here advice in the back of my head but I thought.... It can't hurt to ask....
So I picked up a old singer 29-4 for $150.00 ( I think). I new it worked as it was being used in the shop at the time, had been there as long as I can remember.
This machine handles linen thread as big as 18/3 ( that's what I have been running in it). The thickest leather I have run threw it is 3 pieces of 8 oz. note: I had stitch groves cut 1st in top and bottom piece's of leather, so we can say it was like sewing threw one 8oz & two 6-7oz pieces. The machine does not seem to struggle or be under any "stress/ load" doing this.
My point:
I would love to have a "real" machine but my wife would kill me if I spent that kind of money ( on my self). As a hobbyist I can't justify spending 3k on a machine. Also a thing I noticed after getting the machine is.... I didn't know how to sew or use a machine, so it's a nice to machine to practice with. My thinking is if one day I start selling my stuff and have any kind of demand for my work then I will buy a real machine. Come that time I will know how to sew better and have a nice antique that will be nice to look at and or that I can likely sell for more then I payed for it.
Another side note is I like to do my leather work at night when everyone is asleep, the singer don' t make any noise....I'd get killed by my wife running a toro at 2am:nothing::sad:

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

To shed a less experienced, hobbyist point of view. I think my 1st post ever here was just about the same as yours. The pro's here are telling you the truth, they told me to save my money and more importantly to practice my hand stitching me being very new to leather working at the time ( I'm still new, just not as new). I did just that but one day not that long ago I came across a shoe shop by my house that was going out of business. I could not help my self, I still had the pro's here advice in the back of my head but I thought.... It can't hurt to ask....
So I picked up a old singer 29-4 for $150.00 ( I think). I new it worked as it was being used in the shop at the time, had been there as long as I can remember.
This machine handles linen thread as big as 18/3 ( that's what I have been running in it). The thickest leather I have run threw it is 3 pieces of 8 oz. note: I had stitch groves cut 1st in top and bottom piece's of leather, so we can say it was like sewing threw one 8oz & two 6-7oz pieces. The machine does not seem to struggle or be under any "stress/ load" doing this.
My point:
I would love to have a "real" machine but my wife would kill me if I spent that kind of money ( on my self). As a hobbyist I can't justify spending 3k on a machine. Also a thing I noticed after getting the machine is.... I didn't know how to sew or use a machine, so it's a nice to machine to practice with. My thinking is if one day I start selling my stuff and have any kind of demand for my work then I will buy a real machine. Come that time I will know how to sew better and have a nice antique that will be nice to look at and or that I can likely sell for more then I payed for it.
Another side note is I like to do my leather work at night when everyone is asleep, the singer don' t make any noise....I'd get killed by my wife running a toro at 2am:nothing::sad:

Chef,
Is the Singer 29-4 made for sewing leather or is it an old model that is just strong? If a Cobbler shop is using it, it would have to be strong, shoe leather is pretty thick stuff. I have to say, I like the idea of having something practice on, I've never sewn anything either, and my handstitching is the worst. I've thought about giving an awl a try, but punching that through all the layers that I want to, doesn't appeal to me at all. The way I do it now is similar to the way Tim Lively does on his video, except I actually drill small holes in the leather, I use contact cement to stick it all together, then groove it, the drill, then my wife sews it together. I have big hands, attempting to hold anything small is a challenge to me, plus some nerve problems has my hands a little numb, which also affects the strength of them, an awl would be a nightmare!

So let's hear from the pro's, any of you guys have any experience with the machine Chef is talking about? One thing I have noticed about these old machines, they are practically works of art, the craftmanship of these are from a time when American's really showed their pride in what they were doing, the fact that a lot of these machines are from the 40's is a testament to this country's ability to make quality products that have a certain type of beauty. I think I have seen some of these, but I wasn't aware that they could work. BTW, does your machine have a walking foot on it? And how thick would you say the 3 pieces of leather are?

One more thing I remembered when talking to the wife about this, I was talking to my Tandy guy one day (before they moved out of town), he had told me that the older machines that had metal gears were capable of sewing leather, we didn't get into which machines or any other details, I had forgotten he had said that, until my wife remembered it. Even if I can get a cheaper machine that could sew maybe a half inch thickness, it would be something that I could learn with, that is until I could afford something better. I haven't sold many knives, with the hopes of that changing soon, I really can't justify the expense of an Artisan or a Cobra, anytime soon. At least until I'm selling enough knives and making enough sheaths to offset the expense. It would be great if something like this would get me by until then. What do y'all think? Rex

 

[Paul Long]

Rex, keep your eyes open for an older machine at a bargain price......something like Chef found. His was a case of being in the right place at the right time, which doesn't come around very often. If I were you, I would not buy anything I could not try out before purchase which just about blows eBay. Again, I suggest you call Artisan and Cobra and talk to those guys. They may well have a good trade in machine that is worth the money and will do the job for you, and at the very least you can get some great advise on what to shop for. Just don't buy something that is useless and just fit to be a boat anchor, such as the eBay "industrial" "heavy duty" etc.

Paul

 

[McClellan Made Blades]

Rex, keep your eyes open for an older machine at a bargain price......something like Chef found. His was a case of being in the right place at the right time, which doesn't come around very often. If I were you, I would not buy anything I could not try out before purchase which just about blows eBay. Again, I suggest you call Artisan and Cobra and talk to those guys. They may well have a good trade in machine that is worth the money and will do the job for you, and at the very least you can get some great advise on what to shop for. Just don't buy something that is useless and just fit to be a boat anchor, such as the eBay "industrial" "heavy duty" etc.

Paul

Thaks Paul,
I'll do just that, while at the same time keeping my eye open for the ones you mentioned, no doubt the Artisan or the Cobra (and maybe Tippman?) are the right machines for the job, it's just an economics thing, and very difficult to justify to the wife! Heck, it's hard to justify that expense to myself! But definitely needed! I'll continue shopping and saving, eventually I'll either get tired of waiting and buy the Singer, or try to hold out long enough for the better choice. Thanks for all of y'alls help, I'll be back when I think I've found a good deal, just to check with you all, to make sure it is. Thanks again for everything, Rex

 

[johnusher]

Singer 4411 heavy duty sewing machine(one and only ) would be best for you for leather projects.