My passive air filter mask: fudge, cheapo, alternate to the £1200 option

S

Smurf masher

Well-Known Member
Buy this?
1653342475343.png
which has these shitty filters:1653342544278.png(particulates only)


Or................

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This Hepa Airfilter for £39.98: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YF9LXX1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

An old Ryobi battery I had (and charger) for a sander that died. (was going to bin it as I switched to makita)

And this USB adapter for said battery £25: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09TW2V411/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(I know I could have bought some cheap electronics but I wanted this to be super easy)

This protective mask: £38 1653341264812.png



And this welding mask: £86 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BWAEYV8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

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And the plan is to setup the airflow to the masks with a universal connection so I can switch the same unit to either masks depending on what I am doing. Like this:

1653342312564.png
 
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Smurf masher said:
Buy this?
View attachment 80862
which has these shitty filters:View attachment 80863(particulates only)


Or................

View attachment 80856

This Hepa Airfilter for £39.98: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B07YF9LXX1/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

An old Ryobi battery I had (and charger) for a sander that died. (was going to bin it as I switched to makita)

And this USB adapter for said battery £25: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B09TW2V411/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
(I know I could have bought some cheap electronics but I wanted this to be super easy)

This protective mask: £38 View attachment 80859



And this welding mask: £86 https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B00BWAEYV8/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o06_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

View attachment 80858


And the plan is to setup the airflow to the masks with a universal connection so I can switch the same unit to either masks depending on what I am doing. Like this:

View attachment 80861
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Well dang. 1000 pounds is a healthy budget for a respirator. Look at supplied air respirators. Instead of having filters and crap that you wear, you just have a mask on and the air is supplied through an air hose (usually a 3/8" ID hose - that's something like 12 or 13 mm OD) You place the pump somewhere with clean air.

Allegro Full Mask Respirator System With One HP Ambient Air Pump, One 50ft. Breathing Air Hose, Model# 9200-01 | Northern Tool

The Allegro Full Mask Respirator System offers a portable, lightweight, air source for one worker. The down tube comes with a 90° elbow th...
m.northerntool.com m.northerntool.com

Keep in mind that £1 GBP is about $1.25USD right now.

I like these more than PAPR because I have less crap to wear. You have to drag a hose around, BUT as a knifemaker, you're going to be doing lots of mostly stationary work. Lots of standing at a grinder or anvil. Just hook the air hose to the back belt loop of your pants.

People use a similar apparatus to go diving without SCUBA tanks. (Google "Hookah Diving" or "Third Lung Diving")

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Also, make GOOD hearing protection a priority.

I'm really bad about PPE. I don't use my safety glasses enough, I don't like gloves, etc. BUT I almost always have hearing protection on.

Since you're going to be forging, I recommend you buy a leather apron. I don't usually wear mine, but they're very nice when you're forge welding. Lots of hot sparks and molten flux flying around at groin level....

Edit: when I say good hearing protection, I mean it aught to protect your ears from loud noises (obviously) AND be comfortable and convenient.

If they aren't comfortable and convenient, you're not going to want to use them. I put mine on when I go out to the shop and pretty much only take them off to put on my welding hood. They really cut down on loud noises, but I can still hear the radio and have a conversation with them on.

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52 Ford said:
Well dang. 1000 pounds is a healthy budget for a respirator. Look at supplied air respirators. Instead of having filters and crap that you wear, you just have a mask on and the air is supplied through an air hose (usually a 3/8" ID hose - that's something like 12 or 13 mm OD) You place the pump somewhere with clean air.

Allegro Full Mask Respirator System With One HP Ambient Air Pump, One 50ft. Breathing Air Hose, Model# 9200-01 | Northern Tool

The Allegro Full Mask Respirator System offers a portable, lightweight, air source for one worker. The down tube comes with a 90° elbow th...
m.northerntool.com m.northerntool.com

Keep in mind that £1 GBP is about $1.25USD right now.

I like these more than PAPR because I have less crap to wear. You have to drag a hose around, BUT as a knifemaker, you're going to be doing lots of mostly stationary work. Lots of standing at a grinder or anvil. Just hook the air hose to the back belt loop of your pants.

People use a similar apparatus to go diving without SCUBA tanks. (Google "Hookah Diving" or "Third Lung Diving")

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Click to expand...
I found that I need pumped air as my masks always steam up, and I wanted a face mask that protects me from crap flying off a grinder. I also wanted a face mask that would fit comfortably under a welding mask.

The bits for the above (minus the masks I would buy anyway) will cost me less than £80 and I like making crazy stuff ;)

The only near competitor I saw was this: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079GYCS9L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&th=1

But again it is only particulates, not a hepa filter, with activated carbon, so will do little to protect me from dodgy gasses. So... jobbing it together with sticky tape and amazon bits seems like not a bad idea ;)
 
52 Ford said:
Also, make GOOD hearing protection a priority.

I'm really bad about PPE. I don't use my safety glasses enough, I don't like gloves, etc. BUT I almost always have hearing protection on.

Since you're going to be forging, I recommend you buy a leather apron. I don't usually wear mine, but they're very nice when you're forge welding. Lots of hot sparks and molten flux flying around at groin level....

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Click to expand...

I'm TERRIBLE for ppe. I hate masks, and hate gloves. But.. I need to get something I might actually use.


As for aprons, I've gotten one: https://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B079GYCS9L/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o08_s01?ie=UTF8&th=1, as for ear protection, was going to use my noise cancelling headphones so I could chill to music and podcasts as I work.

And no... no one likes sparks in the groin.
 
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Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see the need for this much of a respirator. I have a good air filtration unit and a monitor in my garage. I also try and grind with the door open and my grinder very close to the open door. I use ear plugs when needed, safety glasses, and leather gloves plus apron when I'm working with hot steel. I also wear steel toe boots in the shop/garage.
 
CDHumiston said:
Maybe I'm crazy but I don't see the need for this much of a respirator. I have a good air filtration unit and a monitor in my garage. I also try and grind with the door open and my grinder very close to the open door. I use ear plugs when needed, safety glasses, and leather gloves plus apron when I'm working with hot steel. I also wear steel toe boots in the shop/garage.
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My issue is noise. As i will be in a large but still suburban garden I will likely need to close the doors and have a darn good air blower. Also, I agree.. I dont see the need if the filter costs over 100 quid. My main desire was to have a filter that worked under or with two different types of safety masks. (welding and impact) without both fogging up like hell.
 
Smurf masher said:
My issue is noise. As i will be in a large but still suburban garden I will likely need to close the doors and have a darn good air blower. Also, I agree.. I dont see the need if the filter costs over 100 quid. My main desire was to have a filter that worked under or with two different types of safety masks. (welding and impact) without both fogging up like hell.
Click to expand...
And this is a lot cheaper than a massive high powered shop sized ventilator. Those... are expensive. I'd rather use this then let the dust settle and hoover up after. (with mask on) and open the doors.
 
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That actually looks like it might work. I’ve been thinking up a similar setup for at my grinder station. I always, always wear safety glasses, but can’t stand respirators or masks, missing a bunch of my left lung, so it’s hard to breath in them. I like that idea, if it protects your eyes and keeps your air clean it’s a good idea. I was thinking about piping air from the discharge side of a HEPA vac into a face shield.
 
I have 3M PAPR I would like to use with a welding helmet. I look forward to and hope you continue with this thread to show us the details of the execution of your project, especially the conversion of the various headgear. Thank you and good luck! Nothing like having that cool air gently blowing on your face while you work.
 
Smurf masher said:
And this is a lot cheaper than a massive high powered shop sized ventilator. Those... are expensive. I'd rather use this then let the dust settle and hoover up after. (with mask on) and open the doors.
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I have a half mask SAR that I can wear under my welding hood. Very nice when welding galvanized metal or cutting nasty metal - specifically when you dont have adequate ventilation.

Here's a picture of what welding thick galvanized coating without good ventilation looks like. This is my welding hood after about 45 seconds of welding. You REALLY, REALLY, don't want to breath those fumes. (Heavy metal toxicity - "metal fume fever"). An SAR provides you with clean breathing air that's being pumped in from another location. PAPR and conventional regulators just filter bad stuff out of the air.

For knife making stuff, you really don't NEED SAR or even PAPR for most stuff. They're much more comfortable to wear than a regular respirator, though. No breathing resistance and they don't get "stuffy" like a regular respirator (not sure about the PAPR, but my SAR doesn't reallh get condensation in it).
527757446043746348b56431e9e5bc63.jpg


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fitzo said:
I have 3M PAPR I would like to use with a welding helmet. I look forward to and hope you continue with this thread to show us the details of the execution of your project, especially the conversion of the various headgear. Thank you and good luck! Nothing like having that cool air gently blowing on your face while you work.
Click to expand...
3M makes a PAPR Speedglas welding hood. I wonder if you can buy just the hood portion of the setup and hook your PAPR gear to it...

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52 Ford said:
3M makes a PAPR Speedglas welding hood. I wonder if you can buy just the hood portion of the setup and hook your PAPR gear to it...

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Click to expand...
I am hoping the Speedglas helmet has the same connector as my Versaflo. 3M has a habit of changing connectors just so you can’t do that, but …. If it does I’m ”in like flint” for when I re-gear to weld again someday. It’s going to cost me $4-5k to gear up for TIG (Red at this point), so I have avoided the welding shop to check these small questions until I’m ready to go. Either way, I will get a Speedglas and figure out how to adapt it. @MTBob mentioned how he felt the Speedglas was a huge step up from a cheaper helmet vision-wise, and my vision sucks. I defintiely want the air to the hood as I have COPD that got worse thanks to Long Covid.

Got a scan coming up next month. Got another scan a couple months later. Both of those say I’m okay then I am at the welding shop the next day. I’ve got O/A, had MIG I gave away when I thought I was toast. Now I want to try TIG and stick just because I want to. :)
 
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Interesting thread. I was tentatively cleared today by my pulmonologist to go back in my shop. So I just purchased a PAPR compatible 3M Full Face mask. I think it's the best choice; at least for me.

The one thing I worry about when making either modifications or changes to a critical piece of equipment, such as these, is that I'll miss something. I'm not saying what you are proposing Smurf masher won't work. In fact it looks quite promising, as long as all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed.
 
fitzo said:
I have 3M PAPR I would like to use with a welding helmet. I look forward to and hope you continue with this thread to show us the details of the execution of your project, especially the conversion of the various headgear. Thank you and good luck! Nothing like having that cool air gently blowing on your face while you work.
Click to expand...
I just bought 50 quids worth of odd plumbing and hoover attachments. I think I need a 3d printer... But the bits and bobs I've bought should work with some glue and some clamps. Certainly just a trial run to see if it works. The hood attachments may be the tricky part. I'm thinking of using a annular cutter to make a bore hole in a plastic flange the pipe goes into, then drilling holes in it to stitch it into the fabric that will cover the back of the head and the lower jaw. (then using plumbers sealant) Each mask will be different, so certainly going to be interesting, as needlecraft is NOT my forte.

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1653363264049.png
1653363319123.png
1653363384166.png
 
Sean Jones said:
Interesting thread. I was tentatively cleared today by my pulmonologist to go back in my shop. So I just purchased a PAPR compatible 3M Full Face mask. I think it's the best choice; at least for me.

The one thing I worry about when making either modifications or changes to a critical piece of equipment, such as these, is that I'll miss something. I'm not saying what you are proposing Smurf masher won't work. In fact it looks quite promising, as long as all the i's are dotted and the t's crossed.
Click to expand...
Yes.. I'm not sue it will work fully until I test it. I plan to wear a normal mask underneath it, then get my wife to chuck a variety of dust at my head and see what collects on the under mask. Fingers crossed. The pipework I can for sure bodge well, as I can do a bit of plumbing pretty well. The real test will be making the standard masks airtight and incorporating a one way valve to breath out, (althought with positive airflow it does not need to be airtight, just snug enough that the positive pressure stops anything getting in) whilst having a result that is comfortable. I was just really annoyed that even the 1.2k bit of kit gives you the equivalent of a glorified hoover filter, and only handles particulates.

Will be using a lot of this reinforced with superglue and stitching, may even have a test with my pop rivet gun.1653363839821.png

The hardest bit so far in sourcing parts was getting from a 3 inch dia on the ends of the hepa filter to go into a 2 inch hose. And I spent about an hour trying to find a flange for the final mask attachment.
 
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fitzo said:
I am hoping the Speedglas helmet has the same connector as my Versaflo. 3M has a habit of changing connectors just so you can’t do that, but …. If it does I’m ”in like flint” for when I re-gear to weld again someday. It’s going to cost me $4-5k to gear up for TIG (Red at this point), so I have avoided the welding shop to check these small questions until I’m ready to go. Either way, I will get a Speedglas and figure out how to adapt it. @MTBob mentioned how he felt the Speedglas was a huge step up from a cheaper helmet vision-wise, and my vision sucks. I defintiely want the air to the hood as I have COPD that got worse thanks to Long Covid.

Got a scan coming up next month. Got another scan a couple months later. Both of those say I’m okay then I am at the welding shop the next day. I’ve got O/A, had MIG I gave away when I thought I was toast. Now I want to try TIG and stick just because I want to. :)
Click to expand...
No clue when HTP switch from red to gray, but I've heard GREAT things about the HTP InvertTIG 221.

If you want a demo video - look up This Old Tony on YouTube.

ORRRRRR if you want to make everyone jealous, buy a Fronius MagicWave.

The amount of control you have over the arc with an AC/DC inverter TIG machine is sorta crazy. You can literally play MUSIC with the AC arc on a Fronius.

The term "gives the discerning TIG welder ALL the control he probably doesn't need" comes to mind. :D


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Smurf masher said:
I just bought 50 quids worth of odd plumbing and hoover attachments. I think I need a 3d printer... But the bits and bobs I've bought should work with some glue and some clamps. Certainly just a trial run to see if it works. The hood attachments may be the tricky part. I'm thinking of using a annular cutter to make a bore hole in a plastic flange the pipe goes into, then drilling holes in it to stitch it into the fabric that will cover the back of the head and the lower jaw. (then using plumbers sealant) Each mask will be different, so certainly going to be interesting, as needlecraft is NOT my forte.

View attachment 80864
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View attachment 80868
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Be VERY careful with the parts you use and how you use them. Especially choosing adhesives and sealants.

Google "off-gassing". (Edit: also read about VOC)

Ever buy something, open the box, and that strong chemical smell hits you? Off gassing. Paint a room and it has that "fresh paint smell" for a week? Off gassing. You get the point.

Even once the adhesive is set up, it takes time to cure.

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This welding hood looks loose enough that it might be possible to stretch fit it over the edges of the masks.

That was the other reason I went down this crazy path, I could not find any PAPR with welding protection.

3M 3M-Tecaweld Welding Hood : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop 3M 3M-Tecaweld Welding Hood. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.
www.amazon.co.uk


annnnd now I've found one. https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jackson-Safety-Advantage-Internal-Welding/dp/B0865839LX/ref=sr_1_6?crid=2C92E8BDH9AAT&keywords=PAPR+welding&qid=1653365141&s=diy&sprefix=papr+welding,diy,62&sr=1-6

Damnit. But turns out they dont deliver to the UK, only the EU.

But... maybe I dont need to refund my masks. 3m do replacement liners ;)

3M FX Air Face Seal 534000 Automatic Welding Helmet Accessories : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

3M FX Air Face Seal 534000 Automatic Welding Helmet Accessories : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools
www.amazon.co.uk


and gave some nice instructions on how it all fits together!

I might get this working with a proper 3m replacable seal setup ;) I just add velcro and some button connections (and improvise that push in seal)

Bit cheaper if i pull it off!

1653366660176.png
 
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