Press or hammer?

[jmforge]

I have been using my arguably less than adequate press for like 12 years and it’s time for something new. All things being equal like neighbor and noise factors, which do you think would be better if most of my work would be either forging blades or forge welding relatively simple Stuff like random and ladder Damascus and san Mai? Would say a 55 pound Anyang with flat/combo dies give you a better chance of forging a San mai billet and blade and keeping the core centered compared to say a coal iron forge 16 ton plus? I don’t necessarily see myself doing much in the way of even simple mosaic in the future as I haven’t done any for seven or eight years.

 

[Chris Railey]

The following is my opinion based on my experiences alone: I have made San-Mai and Damascus billets by hand and I have not had any trouble keeping the core centered. I am careful to work both sides equally turning the billet every heat. Since I have gotten my forge press last year I have made many billets with it as well and I apply the same philosophy. I still set my forge welds by hand hammer but as soon as I am happy with the welds I go to my press. Turn the billet every heat or two and work both sides equally, especially with the fullering and drawing dies. In my experience, (on my press in my shop) the action side of your press will work the steel a little more than the static side even with the flat dies. So if you do not turn the billet often the core will be closer to the harder worked side. Just like hammering by hand, if you only hammer one side of the billet it may get off center. I am not sure how much it helps keep the billet centered but I always start with equal thickness of mild steel and high carbon. If my mild steel is 1/4 inch then my HC will be 1/4 inch thick. If I were going to use mis-matched steel then I would go with thinner mild steel to thicker HC but I have never done it that way. I will tell you the one thing the press has done for me in a big way is it allows me to work larger billets quickly. Stuff I could never move by hand; my press will squish nicely. My last billet of San-Mai started life as a 1.5 inch wide 1 inch thick stack about six inches long. No way I could move that by hand in one session.

I know I really did not answer your question directly mostly because I have neve used a power hammer. I can tell you if i had a power hammer I would still set my welds by hand and then move to the hammer. My decision to choose the press over the hammer was strictly a financial one. The press was much less expensive. I have the Coal Iron 12 ton press and I love it. I have had no issues with it and the company was great.

I know Ed has both a power hammer and a press so I hope he will be along shortly to opine.

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

OK, As Chris said, I have both, and if asked, couldn't do without either one. Why? The press is my "precision", and the air hammer is my "speed".

Each excels at different tasks, and each works hot steel differently. A press forges from the inside out....meaning that the interior of whatever your pressing, moves/forges the most, while the exterior moves/forges the least.

A hammer works steel just the opposite.... from the outside in.... meaning that hammer dies move/forge the exterior the most, and the interior is forged/moved the least. Its all about heat.... press dies suck the surface heat out of anything your working on....so the exterior simply doesn't move as much as the interior. With a hammer, heat is actually generated by the strike of the dies....this can be proven by taking a 1/2" piece of round or square and under drawing dies, hammer it cold. With a 1/2 dozen of so blows, the steel will start to turn red hot, and quickly there after into orange.

OK, all that being said..... Neighbors and noise consideration?? A press. Very precise at what it does, yet slow compared to a hammer.
IF noise/neighbors are not a consideration....based on what you said you'd be doing..... a hammer all the way...with the exception of San-Mai.....I find if far easier to keep a San-Mail core centered using the precision of the press. With the hammer, I'm constantaly chasing the core back and forth, simply because of the way a hammer works the steel.....from the outside in.
Right now, the Anyang is arguably your best choice. (especially if you can drive to Texas and pick it up yourself....that will save you a huge wad a cash.)

Here's the thing with these smaller hammers ....you mentioned combo dies.....for all but the smallest of blades and/or billets...... IMO, combo dies a waste. I tried using them way back when I was running 25 & 50lb Little giants in the shop, and again when I purchased my Say-Mal 110lb air hammer...... IF you buy a hammer....buy at least two sets of dies with it.....one full flat, and the other mild drawing. With those two sets of dies, you will be able to do everything you mentioned and more.

With a press, I generally recommend at least a 20 ton, and prefer more. With a hammer, you'd be more than happy with the 55lb Anyang.