Some new designs wanting opinions

Ty Adams

Ty Adams

KNIFE MAKER
It looks like like I'm finally going to have time for knife making. With the new shop having more power than Thors hammer I want to add some tools that will help make life easier and speed my process. So after not taking orders for some time I have let some very patient people know that my books are open for a short time.

The number one thing that is almost always asked by potential customers here in Montana is why are my knives so small. You know bigger is always better when field dressing wild game! So this morning I designed a couple of knives that are larger than what I personal like. I'm looking for some input on what you guys think of the new designs. Sorry for the blades running into the letters the original length of the blades where out of proportion to handles. The bottom knife is a utility blade for cutting cord, and zip ties while setting trail cams and tree stands.20181006_163255.jpg
 
So Chris, a lot of this is just personal opinion. A good skinning knife is somewhere in the area of 4"-6"! Don't know if that is N S E W length. When skinning a lot of skinning is finesse or a wrist flick in my opinion! The longer the knife the harder it is to control the flick of the wrist!!

Looking at your drawings. The top one is more of a dedicated skinner or maybe what many call a camp knife, although as a camp knife I might want just a tad longer. I personally like it. The problem with a dedicated skinner to me is it is hard to start when working around the legs and to much blade for finessing the delicate areas on the head.

The second one I like as well. It has enough of a drop point to be more in line with a good compromise of the two ideas, IE camp knife/skinner! I personally prefer a drop point, as it tends to be more versatile!

The third knife, the Wharncliffe will make a good slicer. Mostly a Wharncliffe is a drag to cut blade or straight down then drag. Either way it makes a good slicer!!

I use to trap and my favorite 3 blade pocket knife actually done most of the skinning. The Wharncliffe blade was used to make the cuts against the bone, on the legs to start the skinning. The pointy blade was what I used to get the cut down the legs going and sometime in around the eyes and the ears, nose, mouth and such! The third blade the Spay-point Blade or the alternate spelling spey-point blade had been re-worked so that the sharpened edge came around the end of the blade. That was my skinner blade mostly!!
I actually had a dedicated skinner I kept in my tack shed along side my skinning gambrel and my fleshing pole. On larger animals in the field of the animal pelt, it was the best for skinning!

I think folks get too hung up on naming their blades. I personally like all three blades, they all have different purposes. Number 2 is probably the most versatile of the three but it would be a shame not to make the others!!
 
I concur with C Craft's closing statement. All three knives will have someone's name to it, once it is made. They are all great looking designs.
 
C Craft said:
So Chris, a lot of this is just personal opinion. A good skinning knife is somewhere in the ar
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You are correct, When I skin a larger animal I tend to extend my index finger along the spine for good control, this causes me to “choke up” a little on the knife. When I spoke of the shape being what people in the south call a skinning knife I meant it in a general reference from laypeople. Most will not know a wharncliffe from a sheepsfoot like makers will. Believe me I am not trying to start a debate about a proper skining knife.
 
Chris Railey said:
You are correct, When I skin a larger animal I tend to extend my index finger along the spine for good control, this causes me to “choke up” a little on the knife. When I spoke of the shape being what people in the south call a skinning knife I meant it in a general reference from laypeople. Most will not know a wharncliffe from a sheepsfoot like makers will. Believe me I am not trying to start a debate about a proper skining knife.
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Nor was I Chris! I was merely passing on my own experiences with skinning! There is a difference in skinning a large animal and skinning smaller game and furbearing animals. Unless you are looking to make a taxidermy quality deer skin, and then you want everything!
I guess what I was trying to bring forth, is that if you are forced to use on of those three designs. I think I would prefer #2. The drop point helps to have a point to do certain operations that are real hard to with something like the other two!!

Let me show you a pic of a set-up by the late Chuck Borrows. He was indeed very knowledgeable of the 1800s to the early 1900's. That includes the everything from the Mountain man to the Indian wars and on into supposed civilization of America!

CB (2).jpg This was his depiction of what a Buffalo Hunter would have worn back in the day. There is one similar in a museum. Off hand I can't tell you where, my memory is not as good as it used to be. One knife is a slight drop point and the other knife reminds me of more of a boning knife, plus a sharpening steel! These guys were known to skin a buffalo in short terms. They had to when the group of hunters have been known to shoot as many as 250 buffalo's a day!! https://www.legendsofamerica.com/we-buffalohunters/

Now days a skinner is used only seasonal. So if you look for a knife to use as a skinner I feel it has to multitask, so therefore a useable point is more necessary, like number two!

However I like all three shapes Ty posted and, it would be a terrible shame to not build the other two!! :cool:
 
Thanks everyone for the input. I value the knowledge on this site and appreciate it every time I log on.

These are definitely more like skinning knives than the average hunter. The top knife is based loosely on a skinning knife, with the drop point added for use as dressing knife if need be. I prefer hunting knives with a blade around 3-1/4" and under 1" wide other wise the blade just gets in the way while working. So making knives larger is a struggle for me to design. It seems locally most people want one knife to do everything. When you're in the mountains packing 2, 3, or even 4 knives is not that practical.
 
bottom drawing, do it in 3/32" or 1/16", get rid of bolster, flat grind, Rc 62-63 minimum, either O1 or 52100, finish bevel at 10* a side.
 
scott.livesey said:
bottom drawing, do it in 3/32" or 1/16", get rid of bolster, flat grind, Rc 62-63 minimum, either O1 or 52100, finish bevel at 10* a side.
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I can see making it out of 1/16". Why so thin at the edge, and at that angle? I figured leaving it somewhat thicker at the edge maybe 17 thousands. Temper it back some so it has some flex. The person buying this doesn't abuse knives, but I could see where some twisting could happen while trying to get under zip ties. I'm always looking to learn new things if my thinking is off I'm open to new ideas.
 
flex is geometry not hardness. geometry controls flex and geometry cuts. what i described would be high performance cutter/slicer. i would not see any issues unless you try to baton it. personally, i use diagonal cutting pliers or a box cutter for zip ties.
 
scott.livesey said:
flex is geometry not hardness. geometry controls flex and geometry cuts. what i described would be high performance cutter/slicer. i would not see any issues unless you try to baton it. personally, i use diagonal cutting pliers or a box cutter for zip ties.
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Well hopefully some of the experienced makers will jump in here. Maybe with 01 and 52100 that's true? A 1084 Hunter at 62 ground thin would not have much give. I tend not to try new steels very often. Right now I have 1084, 1095, and 1075.
 
I try to not get too hung up on blade shapes or names of shapes as long as its not in the sci-fi/fantasy realm.

Drop points, spear points, clip points, bowie points, leaf points, hunters, skinners.......blah, blah, blah......they're all more or less the same.

As long as a knife is in the well-designed, practical range, it doesn't really matter what overall shape the blade is or where the point is on that shape for 98% of tasks. The human hand is very versatile and can make almost anything work.

The users skill set is far more important than the blade shape. A hunter with a few deer under his belt will do a far better job field dressing deer with a filet knife than a Starbucks barista who never set foot outside the city limits of Seattle would do with a Loveless dropped hunter.

Actually, my personal experiences have shown me that often how much belly a knife has (usually less belly is better than too much) is more important than what shape the blade is or where the tip is.

Additionally to that, good flow, the proper angle/drop to the handle in relation to the cutting edge and handle shape are key design elements to consider when assessing how useful and comfortable a knife will be....especially in long term use.
 
Also...the answer to every issue is not some one else telling you "it needs to be X steel, with Y thickness at Z hardness"

You can make a darn good quality everyday knife out of 1/8" 1084 that can be tough as nails and still cut like a laser and people will be absolutely THRILLED with.

You've got pretty good processes with pretty good materials to work with already. There's no point in undoing that just to come up with some new designs. Build new designs on the solid platform you already have.
 
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