1095 & W2 HT questions

Chris Martin

Chris Martin

Well-Known Member
Help me out Dogs.

I know this has been beat to death. But on that other forum it just gets so dang confusing sometimes with everyones opinions. I know most makers have there methods on HTing certain steels. I would just like to know the basics IE method for your rookie with a small 1 burner gas forge.

From what I have gathered, heat the 1095 & W2 up like most 10xx steels.

Normalize 3x

Back in forge and move in and out trying to keep an accurate as possible 1500-1550 temp for a few minutes and then straight into a fast quench. I dont have a temp read so I go off of color and a magnet.

All I have is peanut oil that I pre heat with hot steel. I have heard this is too slow.

I hear a Parks #50 would be best. But all I have is peanut oil that I pre heat. I have also heard that a brine mixture would work. But am scared to death of cracking and warpage.:eek:

What would a good mixture of salt to water be? The blades will be small no more than 7-9"'s OAL Thickness is 1/8" 1095 and 3/16" W2

I hope this is enough info, if not fire away.

Ok dogs...scold away2thumbs

Thanks for your time.

Chris
 
When I took George Dixon's class at John C. Campbell Folk School we were heat treating punches, chisels, ect. (not a knife blade). We used S-1, quenched it in brine and used them as quenched (no tempering). Drop a baking potato into the quench with 5 gallons of water. Add salt until the potato floats.

Some of the tools (chisels) had a thin edge but a lot more mass than a knife blade. Remember my post about quenching L-6 saw blade as cut and as forged into a knife blade.
 
Thanks Wayne. Thats a cool backyard tip easy on the potato...who would have thunk it...lol I guess thats when I know I have enough salt....Awesome!

Wayne Coe said:
When I took George Dixon's class at John C. Campbell Folk School we were heat treating punches, chisels, ect. (not a knife blade). We used S-1, quenched it in brine and used them as quenched (no tempering). Drop a baking potato into the quench with 5 gallons of water. Add salt until the potato floats.

Some of the tools (chisels) had a thin edge but a lot more mass than a knife blade. Remember my post about quenching L-6 saw blade as cut and as forged into a knife blade.
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I would change the soak for a few minutes to several seconds. You just want to make sure that the steel is heated all the way through and is hot enough to still be austinized when it hits the quenchant but not so hot to promote warpage. Too long a soak can promote grain growth.

If you want to try a brine quench, heat the water until it's about 160 degrees and keep adding salt until no more will disolve. A dash of dish washing detergent will help with wetting a little. I also start out with distilled water just to be on the safe side. On the two blades that I brine quenched, both 1095, I went straight into the brine with no aggitation and no interuption. Move fast, you will have less than one second to bring the steel from around 1400 degrees to under about 1000 degrees. That's the reason that you want the temperature of the blade to be above 1400 degrees when it goes into the quench. What you are doing is rapidly cooling the steel from the temp at which the austinite is stable to below the nose of the cooling curve to prevent pearlite from forming, at least on the cutting edge.

Doug Lester
 
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Thanks for the tips Doug. I had read it needs to come out from the forge and into the quench super fast. I will practice this first. My quench tank is a 105mm howitzer shell so its taller than my forge placement. I might move the forge up higher so I can go straight down into the quench.

Thanks Doug...I will practice this weekend!

Chris

Doug Lester said:
I would change the soak for a few minutes to several seconds. You just want to make sure that the steel is heated all the way through and is hot enough to still be austinized when it hits the quenchant but not so hot to promote warpage. Too long a soak can promote grain growth.

If you want to try a brine quench, heat the water until it's about 160 degrees and keep adding salt until no more will disolve. A dash of dish washing detergent will help with wetting a little. I also start out with distilled water just to be on the safe side. On the two blades that I brine quenched, both 1095, I went straight into the brine with no aggitation and no interuption. Move fast, you will have less than one second to bring the steel from around 1400 degrees to under about 1000 degrees. That's the reason that you want the temperature of the blade to be above 1400 degrees when it goes into the quench. What you are doing is rapidly cooling the steel from the temp at which the austinite is stable to below the nose of the cooling curve to prevent pearlite from forming, at least on the cutting edge.

Doug Lester
Click to expand...
 
("I went straight into the brine with no aggitation and no interuption. Move fast, you will have less than one second to bring the steel from around 1400 degrees to under about 1000 degrees. That's the reason that you want the temperature of the blade to be above 1400 degrees when it goes into the quench.")

I would like to think you meant to say 1500°. 1400° is not even quite non-magnetic, which is 1414°. You have .8 of one second to bring the temp down below 900° from 1500°. This is the quench cooling speed, and not how fast you move to the quench, although you never want to waste time in quenching any steel. Your brine solution should be around a 9% salt solution, and it is good to move the blade fore and aft in the quench in order to further break up the vapor jacket. A safer bet might be canola oil. It is a tad faster than peanut oil, and you would probably be satisfied with the result. It is not as fast as Parks #50, but is the next best thing. Heat to 130°/135°.
 
I agree with the shorter soak in a forge setting where temperature is uncontrolled to avoid grain growth. However, in an oven setting with controlled temps or in a well controlled and known-temperature forge, longer soak time does not necessarily mean grain growth. There were some tests done a good while back using O1 with various soak durations at a known temp. As long as the temp was appropriate and steady, even a 24 hour soak did not result in grain growth. Grain growth is a function of time and temp, with temperature having the greater effect. Excessive heat will result in run-away grain growth as time at excessive temperature increases, but appropriate heat shouldn't result in any mentionable growth.

--nathan
 
silver_pilate said:
I agree with the shorter soak in a forge setting where temperature is uncontrolled to avoid grain growth. However, in an oven setting with controlled temps or in a well controlled and known-temperature forge, longer soak time does not necessarily mean grain growth. There were some tests done a good while back using O1 with various soak durations at a known temp. As long as the temp was appropriate and steady, even a 24 hour soak did not result in grain growth. Grain growth is a function of time and temp, with temperature having the greater effect. Excessive heat will result in run-away grain growth as time at excessive temperature increases, but appropriate heat shouldn't result in any mentionable growth.

--nathan
Click to expand...

Thank you Nathan2thumbs. The recommended industry solution for brine is around 9% by volume. The salt does not slow the quench but instead crystallizes out at the blade liquid interface and thus helps collapse the vapor jacket resulting in a more even quench with more heat extraction.
 
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