A few thoughts on filework

J. Doyle

Dealer - Purveyor
I just wanted to share a few quick observations about filework. This is my opinion, but I know it is an opinion shared by many top-tier makers and seasoned collectors alike so it is worth repeating.

Filework is an embellishment and it should ADD to a knife's flow and visual appeal, not detract or distract. It shouldn't be gaudy or over the top.

Filework should never be done 'just because' or 'because I had some open space to fill'. It should be purposeful and always well done.

I don't believe there is such a thing as 'okay' filework........its either good, or it isn't.

Filework is a SKILLSET that is used to compliment an ALREADY SOUND knifemaking foundation. Good filework will not enhance or save a poorly made knife. And bad filework will only make a poorly finished knife worse.

If a maker doesn't have a good sound grasp of nice flow, proportions, good general visual appeal, even/clean grinds, good pin/screw placement and immaculate blade/wood/handle finishes.........filework is the last thing he/she should be concerned about.

So.....if you're going to do filework, ask yourself "do I have the basics down?" and "does the filework compliment this knife?" And if you proceed with filework.....ask yourself "does it look GOOD?"........because if not, that only leaves one other choice.

The above was just a general observation that is a good reminder from time to time. It is in no way pointed at anyone in particular.
 
Good points. I’ve seen very nice knives ruined by poor file work and some nice file work done on poorly made knives. I haven’t attempted it yet. I’m still trying to make a knife that I can’t point out ten things that I could have done better. It would be really helpful if someone made a tutorial video on how to produce quality file work (hint, hint).
 
Filework really looks good when done right but when done wrong you might as well throw the knife in the garbage. The thing I don't get is I see horrible looking knives with horrible looking filework on Instagram all the time. I'm not sayin any names but these people have like 20,000 follower's and when they post garbage knives with garbage filework for sale its sold in 5min. I don't get ito_O
 
Filework is a SKILLSET that is used to compliment an ALREADY SOUND knifemaking foundation. Good filework will not enhance or save a poorly made knife. And bad filework will only make a poorly finished knife worse.

If a maker doesn't have a good sound grasp of nice flow, proportions, good general visual appeal, even/clean grinds, good pin/screw placement and immaculate blade/wood/handle finishes.........filework is the last thing he/she should be concerned about.

Thanks John. I've wondered this about other embellishments. It comes to mind often lately with my new build. I want to give this person I'm making a knife for ivory or mastodon bone in the knife. But I can see that a cleanly ground knife without the ivory/mastodon is better than a shoddy ground knife with nice handle material, embellishments, etc.

I can produce something handmade that will work and have visual appeal. And even though it isn't "sown up" it's presentable and I want to add something special to it.

Does this reflect poorly on established custom makers (or the "custom" knife world in general) when new makers over embellish a knife prematurely? If so what's the balance new makers should know?
 
Filework really looks good when done right but when done wrong you might as well throw the knife in the garbage. The thing I don't get is I see horrible looking knives with horrible looking filework on Instagram all the time. I'm not sayin any names but these people have like 20,000 follower's and when they post garbage knives with garbage filework for sale its sold in 5min. I don't get ito_O

And for $800+.

I follow a couple of those folks, too.

Garbage file work end to end, over done and clunky in form. Things like frame handle Bowie's that are clearly beyond the skill set of the maker. But gobbled up like pumpkin pie at Thanksgiving dinner.

I really don't get it.
 
Thanks John. I've wondered this about other embellishments. It comes to mind often lately with my new build. I want to give this person I'm making a knife for ivory or mastodon bone in the knife. But I can see that a cleanly ground knife without the ivory/mastodon is better than a shoddy ground knife with nice handle material, embellishments, etc.

I can produce something handmade that will work and have visual appeal. And even though it isn't "sown up" it's presentable and I want to add something special to it.

Does this reflect poorly on established custom makers (or the "custom" knife world in general) when new makers over embellish a knife prematurely? If so what's the balance new makers should know?

I’m still a total noob, but, of course, I have an opinion on this lol. If there is an embellishment on a knife that I make that I can’t finish properly, I don’t put it on the knife. Trust me, I struggle with this rule all the time. I want to make knives that I just can’t make at the moment. Every single time I have ever “pushed” an embellishment, the end result looked like garbage. In my opinion, a maker, at any level, should realize that because their name is attached to her/his work, the knife should reflect the absolute best of their efforts. I don’t think anyone (I should be careful here lol) would put together a nice knife and leave an 80 grit scuff mark in the middle of the blade. So why someone would take a decent knife and destroy the spine with foolishness is still a mystery to me.... even though I’ve done it myself.
Thanks @J. Doyle for posting this. I read this and really started to self reflect on where I am now as a “maker.” I always take screenshots of knives that I’d like to make.... i literally have thousands of these pics. After reading this thread, I went back and looked through these pics, and realized that the first pic I ever took is still waiting on me. I still haven’t made one as nice as this.1BA3EF1C-9990-4691-A383-DE96D51BED1E.jpeg
 
...

Does this reflect poorly on established custom makers (or the "custom" knife world in general) when new makers over embellish a knife prematurely? If so what's the balance new makers should know?


I can't see any effect a poorly made knife by one maker would have on another makers reputation, if I am understanding your question correctly.

What a poorly made knife will affect is one's own reputation. Whether hobby, or profession, for sale/profit or for fun, shouldn't all of our main goal to be to make the absolute best knife possible?

A maker should strive to break beyond the circle of family/friends/local acquaintances who want to buy your knife because they know you or you're from their hometown. You want people to WANT to PAY YOU for your product because its so good, in spite of NOT knowing you.

Kevin Zito's comment about looking at many other knives and trying to ACCURATELY place where you're at personally is spot on and crucial.

Being able to discern various levels of craftsmanship and separating good from bad is a huge assett and can really help one figure out where they're at and where they want to go as they progress.
 
With all due respect to John (because he is right) it is important to remember, espically when it comes to knives, that “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Just because a high end maker’s customer does not like my style of grinding or finish does not mean it is “junk” or “poorly made” (unless it is). If my customers like and buy my knives at my price point then who has been cheated? The majority of my customers are hard working Georgia Rednecks who could never afford to buy a high end maker’s knife at $700-$2000. In honesty, my target market is the people between Wal-mart and High end makers. They really appreciate a good looking, hard working knife that IS WELL BUILT at a price they can pay. They are not into art. I much prefer to see my knives on someone’s belt that on their wall. I make them to be used and appreciated. The only caveat to this is build quality. One of my customers showed me a knife he bought from another maker the other day and he asked me what I thought. The very first thing I noticed was there were no pins in the handle scale meaning only epoxy was holding them to the knife. Shearing force or shock force will cause failure pretty quick in that case. I was reluctant to point it out for fear of looking “self serving” though.

Disclaimer: I just wanted to make the point that we all do not make wall hangers. Its okay and a great testament to skill if one can create a work of art that is a knife. Even better if they can sell it. Nothing personal in this post just my opinion.
 
Except we're not talking about users vs safe queens here. We're talking about well made/well finished vs not......regardless of the type of knife or intended use.

The point was that secondary visual embellishments (filework specifically in this topic but it can apply to an array of other things) should not be added to and will not increase the value of a knife made by a maker that doesn't have a good grasp of flow/proportions, fit and finish of blade and handle, good visual appeal and comfort/functionality.

If you think about it, that SEEMS simple but really that's a LOT of detail to consider and practice right there.

I've said for awhile now that making a REALLY clean, well finished 3-piece knife with ZERO frills is one of the hardest things to do. There is nowhere for mistakes and flaws to hide.

I'd refer again to Kevin Zito's post and his comments and picture of that knife he posted as a perfect sumnary example of the point of this thread.
 
With all due respect to John (because he is right) it is important to remember, espically when it comes to knives, that “Beauty is in the eye of the beholder”. Just because a high end maker’s customer does not like my style of grinding or finish does not mean it is “junk” or “poorly made” (unless it is). If my customers like and buy my knives at my price point then who has been cheated? The majority of my customers are hard working Georgia Rednecks who could never afford to buy a high end maker’s knife at $700-$2000. In honesty, my target market is the people between Wal-mart and High end makers. They really appreciate a good looking, hard working knife that IS WELL BUILT at a price they can pay. They are not into art. I much prefer to see my knives on someone’s belt that on their wall. I make them to be used and appreciated. The only caveat to this is build quality. One of my customers showed me a knife he bought from another maker the other day and he asked me what I thought. The very first thing I noticed was there were no pins in the handle scale meaning only epoxy was holding them to the knife. Shearing force or shock force will cause failure pretty quick in that case. I was reluctant to point it out for fear of looking “self serving” though.

Disclaimer: I just wanted to make the point that we all do not make wall hangers. Its okay and a great testament to skill if one can create a work of art that is a knife. Even better if they can sell it. Nothing personal in this post just my opinion.
I got something a little different from John’s original post. I don’t want to speak for him, but my interpretation is as follows. If you make a simple, yet high-quality knife, that’s awesome. However, if you take said knife and attempt to add an embellishment that is beyond your skill level, it will probably look terrible... and the buyer may say something like.... yikes with firework like that, there probably isn’t any epoxy holding this thing together. I certainly would if I were purchasing a knife.
 
Cease fire fellas...lol. My post was was not about John’s post even though I acknowledged he was right in what he posted. I did a poor job making my point. Just because one person looks at a particular knife with file work and does not think it adds to the knife, that does not mean everyone will share the same opinion but I agree bad work is bad work.

The point I was making is not all tastes are the same. Just because one maker (not talking about John) sees it one way not all will. For example: The more I do plunge-less grinds the more I like them. In my opinion they look better with a hamon or maybe in damascus than a plain mono steel satin finish. There are plenty here that do not like plunge-less grinds and that is OK. I think once I have gotten a good grasp of executing the plunge-less grind it may be something that sets my work apart from the masses. With the exception of Stormcrow’s work you do not see a lot of plunge-less non-kitchen knives out there. I like it, not all will and that is OK. Thats all I am saying.
 
My original point, again, is not about tastes and preferences of details.

The point is about self-awareness and discernment.

I know seasoned collectors that detest filework......but they can objectively look at a detail like filework and decide if its well done or poorly done.

If you like filework, fine. If you don't, fine. If you like plain, fine. If you like highly adorned, fine.

Any maker should be able to assess their own work and decide if they need more work on the fundamentals or if they're ready to move on to embellishments.

And if they don't know or can't decide, I would advise they have the courage and wisdom to ask someone who is qualified to help them decide.
 
My original point, again, is not about tastes and preferences of details.

The point is about self-awareness and discernment.

I know seasoned collectors that detest filework......but they can objectively look at a detail like filework and decide if its well done or poorly done.

If you like filework, fine. If you don't, fine. If you like plain, fine. If you like highly adorned, fine.

Any maker should be able to assess their own work and decide if they need more work on the fundamentals or if they're ready to move on to embellishments.

And if they don't know or can't decide, I would advise they have the courage and wisdom to ask someone who is qualified to help them decide.
I get it sir, my intention was never to challenge what you said. In fact I agreed with it twice. I was only trying to make a parrell point to encourage people to try things even though everyone may not agree with it. Like I said, I did a poir job.
 
This is an interesting thread, so tagged for any further comments.

I think we need more discussions just like this. It keeps us thinking and moving forward. I think we all eventually become (still a win in my case) proficient at hammering, grinding, sanding, ... etc. However, I think the real art is in putting the whole package together.... and this is definitely a whole package conversation.
 
I think we need more discussions just like this. It keeps us thinking and moving forward. I think we all eventually become (still a win in my case) proficient at hammering, grinding, sanding, ... etc. However, I think the real art is in putting the whole package together.... and this is definitely a whole package conversation.
I agree. Putting the whole package together is still something I haven't fully got. It's not only skill, but the patience to execute. And my lack of patience gets me in trouble every time. Acquiring more patience is certainly part of the skill set.

I'm a long way from adding file work to my skill set.
 
I found some pics I like to help illustrate my original point. Keep in mind, I am not referring to colors or materials preferences.

Here is a pretty simple, very well done knife. Good grinds, good flow and proportions and smooth, even finishes:
Capture+_2019-08-17-11-22-24~2-1024x1014.png

This is not good filework, and it would ruin the above, otherwise very nice knife:
Capture+_2019-08-17-11-35-30~2-1024x617.png

This is pretty exquisite filework, love it or hate it:
Capture+_2019-08-17-11-37-06~2-1024x752.png


The above filework couldn't save this blade:
Capture+_2019-08-17-11-57-08~2-1024x786.png
 
Let’s see some examples! Nothing like visuals for a learning experience.
I’m still a total noob, but, of course, I have an opinion on this lol. If there is an embellishment on a knife that I make that I can’t finish properly, I don’t put it on the knife. Trust me, I struggle with this rule all the time. I want to make knives that I just can’t make at the moment. Every single time I have ever “pushed” an embellishment, the end result looked like garbage. In my opinion, a maker, at any level, should realize that because their name is attached to her/his work, the knife should reflect the absolute best of their efforts. I don’t think anyone (I should be careful here lol) would put together a nice knife and leave an 80 grit scuff mark in the middle of the blade. So why someone would take a decent knife and destroy the spine with foolishness is still a mystery to me.... even though I’ve done it myself.
Thanks @J. Doyle for posting this. I read this and really started to self reflect on where I am now as a “maker.” I always take screenshots of knives that I’d like to make.... i literally have thousands of these pics. After reading this thread, I went back and looked through these pics, and realized that the first pic I ever took is still waiting on me. I still haven’t made one as nice as this.View attachment 69690
i think you have
 
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