Advice on ATS-34 forge temperatures and tempering?

J

jajimi

Member
Hi, Need some feedback from those who have worked with any of the folder kits from USA Knifemaker. I've worked primarily with 1084, 1095, O1 and use 416 quite a bit for guards, etc. The knife bought is ATS-34 steel on blade and spring. I want make sure I heat, quench and temper each accordingly.
Thank You,
 
ATS-34 needs a heat treat oven and is a air quenching steel, if you don't have one send it out for heat treat.
 
If you're a beginner, ATS-34 isn't the best choice of steels to start with, to my knowledge it isn't the best steel to forge as you have to get it very hot, I'm not sure of the forging temp (if it has one) it's primarily used for stock removal. To heat treat it you really need to use a kiln, but first you have to put the blade in stainless steel tool wrap, some people put either a small piece of paper or wood in the pouch with the blade, completely seal the pouch after you have the edges double folded over take a hammer and gently pound it all the way closed with that done it needs to be placed in the kiln with the edge up. Next is the target temp, the specs say 1950 to 2000 degrees Fahrenheit, once you get this temp you want to soak it for 30 minutes. Unlike carbon steel (the 10XX series), this steel is not quenched in oil or any other liquid quench. You need 2,1" thick plates of Aluminum, I guess the length would depend on how long the blades you intend on making, once the blade has soaked for apprx. 30 minutes, you don't want to take it out of the foil, from the kiln straight to the plate, lay it down and immediately put the other plate on top of it, Bossdog also mentioned before that he will take his air compressor and with a full tank, and blow compressed air between the 2 plates until the tank is empty. He feels like that speeds up the quench, that one is probably optional. Now for the temper, there are a couple of ways to the temper, the most used way is liquid nitrogen(LN), the blade is usually hung on a stainless steel wire or placed in a basket and submerged into liquid nitrogen. LN is extremely dangerous, as is most of the HT'ing process, if you don't know how to handle LN you should probably send it to a Heat treating company like Peterson Heat treating or Paul Bos Heat Treat. I lean toward Peterson because they are members of this forum and readily available to ask questions. The other way is using Dry Ice/Acetone mixture, most folks usually leave it in it over night, I think a few hours would probably do, next part of the temper is after it has reached room temperature it goes in the oven at 500 degrees for an hour, 2 times. Also, I will point out that it depends on where you get your info, some places say to do one cycle in the oven at 500 degrees, then the cryo, then back in the oven. The cryo is believed to remove any retained austenite, from what I've read this is a required step for ATS-34/CPM 154/Cpm 154CM. Ats-34 is a Japanese version of the of the CPM 154 steels, while I know this process discourages a lot of folks from using it, it is incredible steel, both for its toughness and edge retention. It is wonderful knife steel, you won't regret using it if you can jump through all the hoops to get it done, Rex
 
Thanks everyone, especially your detailed response Rex. Since it's a first for me, I'll price this both ways, (sending out and acetone/dry ice). I prefer trying to do and learn.
GT
 
GT
My advice would be to do what Murph said, I seriously doubt you can get to and maintain the required temp unless you have a HT kiln, that shows you the precise temp. ATS-34 is great steel, but not too forgiving if you bugger up the HT. I highly recommend sending it to Peters HT, they are great I talked with them at BLADE, they would be my first choice for any of my work, keep in mind that 1950 degrees for 30 minutes is not only difficult to maintain but also pretty dangerous if you're not accustomed to handling heat that high, BE CAREFUL if you attempt doing this yourself. I would really like to see you do some 1084 before you attempt ATS-34, it's like your skipping the crawling process and jumping right into a sprint. Knife making, while fun and rewarding has so many pit falls in the process of learning how to do it. My favorite (knife making) pun is that learning how to make a knife has a very SHARP learning curve! Be careful and have fun, Rex,
 
If this is your first folder, I suggest using O1 (you can use the kit for a pattern) and wait until you are comfortable with making the knife then move on to ATS34. It is a great steel, I use it for all my folders, but it requires precise HT and needs a cryo.

Chris Crawford has a great video using simple carbon steel.
 
Thanks to everyone.
I've never put 416 into a heat and temper process. I've been told that it's simply air hardened. I've made a "first pass folder" that turned out nice as far the mechanics of a folder. I have extra 416 stock and wondered. Any advice out there? Thank you in advance.
 
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