AEB-L steel, pro's/con's

CDHumiston

Well-Known Member
If your blades warp, that means that you should be doing cryo. That is telling me that there would be sufficient RA being converted to induce a warp. If it’s not doing that with a freezer, it’s probably because the freezer isn’t doing anything at all.

I'm not getting any warping without Cryo. Not sure exactly what you're trying to tell me? Are you saying I need Cryo because I'm not getting warping? Sorry if I'm a little confused.
 

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
I recall Chuck Bybee saying that the AEB-L he was getting should be less wavy because none of it was ever on a roll.
I think there's definitely something to that. I have received plenty of AEBL that had a bow in it, and sure as anything I know I'm going to fight warp from that piece of steel. The stuff I get from Aldo is definitely cut from a coil.
 

jmforge

Well-Known Member
I think there's definitely something to that. I have received plenty of AEBL that had a bow in it, and sure as anything I know I'm going to fight warp from that piece of steel. The stuff I get from Aldo is definitely cut from a coil.
According to some, that steel is not AEB-L. It is Buderus X65Cr13 or something like that. One of the heat treaters says it needs a slight adjustment in austenizing temp.
 

Edwardshandmadeknives

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should have explained better. My bad. If you do not do cryo, and have no warps, but then put the unwarped blade into cryo and it warps, then I would take that to mean that there was sufficient RA being converted to martensite to induce a warp. You don’t want warping, but for the blade to warp, something in it has to change. If it warps during cryo that could be a sign that you have high RA, and that means that the cryo is needed. All of the AEBL blades I have made were straight after plate quench, and warping occurred during cryo, most likely from uneven formation of new martensite. So, I guess no warps is good. Warps during cryo could be a sign that the process is needed. That’s my take on it anyway. Not saying you want to see warps, just that warping is a sign that you haven’t achieved full transformation.
 

Andre Grobler

Well-Known Member
Sorry, I should have explained better. My bad. If you do not do cryo, and have no warps, but then put the unwarped blade into cryo and it warps, then I would take that to mean that there was sufficient RA being converted to martensite to induce a warp. You don’t want warping, but for the blade to warp, something in it has to change. If it warps during cryo that could be a sign that you have high RA, and that means that the cryo is needed. All of the AEBL blades I have made were straight after plate quench, and warping occurred during cryo, most likely from uneven formation of new martensite. So, I guess no warps is good. Warps during cryo could be a sign that the process is needed. That’s my take on it anyway. Not saying you want to see warps, just that warping is a sign that you haven’t achieved full transformation.
I used to believe the same, and it is a factor in warping… but not the only one… the steel in coils are the original shape, and even an anneal wont sort it out. Clamping in plates sorts it out mostly, unless you go to the plates to late from oil, or too erly oit of the plates, and into the LN.
 

John Wilson

Well-Known Member
According to some, that steel is not AEB-L. It is Buderus X65Cr13 or something like that. One of the heat treaters says it needs a slight adjustment in austenizing temp.
You're not the first person who has mentioned that. But I have no proof one way or the other. It makes darn good knives whatever it is.
 

CDHumiston

Well-Known Member
The material certs on the NJSB website are from Buderus, and state that the material is X65Cr13.

So, does that make this steel inferior to AEB-L or equivalent?

When I search for X65Cr13 the dreaded China pops up as a maker for razor blades.

I normally buy from Alpha, but I ordered some of the AEB-L from NJSB because I wanted to try the Nitro-V.
 

jmforge

Well-Known Member
So, does that make this steel inferior to AEB-L or equivalent?

When I search for X65Cr13 the dreaded China pops up as a maker for razor blades.

I normally buy from Alpha, but I ordered some of the AEB-L from NJSB because I wanted to try the Nitro-V.
Its like 13C26, AEB-L. IIRC, Larrin says that it may be slightly less tough maybe because it has another percentage point of chrome like 13C26. He said you have to austenize it 25 or so degrees hotter than the real Uddeholm stuff.
 

jmforge

Well-Known Member
The material certs on the NJSB website are from Buderus, and state that the material is X65Cr13.
Yeah, I have made a 12 kitchen knives from it and have like 15 more blades that have been waiting for HT for ages. Worked for me. I have 4 /110 thick Kepharts waiting. those should be fun. I have scads of walnut and curly maple and I score 5 JRE dangler sheaths sheaths with the firesteel loop in a sale of "seconds" from LT Wright on EvilBay. I think I paid $75 for all 5. Made my first one out of a piece of 2.7mm/.106 115W8 that I had left over from making kitchen knives.
 

VeraX Knives

Well-Known Member
You're not the first person who has mentioned that. But I have no proof one way or the other. It makes darn good knives whatever it is.
I do. I let Larrin know something he did not about cross licensing from John Shiesley (Crucible pres) who...gave me more information than I asked for but asked me to not share it so ill...say the information is public knowledge and... AKS *WILL* lie to you left and right without care. That's all I'm going to say. (This is half why I am disliked; I ask questions.)

About the warping issue, you can skip the AQ cryo and do it after a temper to pretty much end that -- which I do with certain alloys. AEB-L would be similar to the carbides and content of what I do that with. Just an idea. Is it as effective at removing RA? Obviously not but steels such as AEB-L actually benefit in the toughness category from *SMALL* amounts of RA moreso than other alloys, I'd personally do it.

Cheers,
 

VeraX Knives

Well-Known Member
If your blades warp, that means that you should be doing cryo. That is telling me that there would be sufficient RA being converted to induce a warp. If it’s not doing that with a freezer, it’s probably because the freezer isn’t doing anything at all.
I'm sorry sir your science there is totally incorrect. It's martensite that causes warping - not austenite.
 

Edwardshandmadeknives

Well-Known Member
I'm sorry sir your science there is totally incorrect. It's martensite that causes warping - not austenite.

Try including some comprehension with your reading. I stated that RA being converted causes warping. That is, when it turns into martensite, especially when it is unevenly distributed within the bar of steel, it will induce a warp. No wonder metallurgist don’t like you. Not only are you an idiot, you really think you know something. Go crawl back behind your dumpster and fire up that crack pipe and leave the adults alone here.
 

vlegski

Well-Known Member
Edward, slow down guy. Maybe the guy could answer whether this change is the result of plasticized strain, thermal strain, transformational strain or the transformational plasticity strain of the Ra change to martensite or a change just within the martensite
 

Edwardshandmadeknives

Well-Known Member
Edward, slow down guy. Maybe the guy could answer whether this change is the result of plasticized strain, thermal strain, transformational strain or the transformational plasticity strain of the Ra change to martensite or a change just within the martensite

True. I got a little defensive. There is much to learn and understand in the metallurgical field.
I would love to hear the explanation here from an expert such as himself. ;)
 

VeraX Knives

Well-Known Member
Edward, slow down guy. Maybe the guy could answer whether this change is the result of plasticized strain, thermal strain, transformational strain or the transformational plasticity strain of the Ra change to martensite or a change just within the martensite
I ain't going to act like I know. Larrin Thomas is a metallurgist. I am a network systems administrator. I have 6 degrees in different areas not one. If I had to guess, it's all of them minus the RA to martensitic transformation would be the least pertinent. I'm not a professional as it states but I'm not retarded.
 

VeraX Knives

Well-Known Member
I ain't going to act like I know. Larrin Thomas is a metallurgist. I am a network systems administrator. I have 6 degrees in different areas not one. If I had to guess, it's all of them minus the RA to martensitic transformation would be the least pertinent. I'm not a professional as it states but I'm not retarded.
Then again he isn't here and I am
 
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