just wonderin' if anybody out there using C/A glue for final application of handle scales as opposed to epoxy ? in a recent conversation w/ a very experienced knifemaker - the method was using a knife vise, the scale is place on one side of the handle and LIGHTLY clamped then trace around perimeter w/ C/A glue allowing the glue to draw itself between metal and wood scale - if done quickly and then clamped tightly a few seconds before glue sets, it was implied that this method is superior to epoxy ! anyone have any experience with this or any input - just curious --
apply scales w/ C/A glue ?
- Thread starter victoroni
- Start date
Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
I've used C/A glue for temporarily holding scales and other parts but never for a permanent hold. However I have heard of this method in passing. Hopefully someone with more experience with this will chime in.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
I have never heard of this, but I would not have a hard time believing it’s possible. The reason I say that is because I use CA glue quite a bit making folders. I glue the two liners together so that when I drill the holes through both liners at once I won’t have alignment problems with the pins.
Now, I also grind the liners to shape at the same time after drilling the pin holes and there are times when the glue lets go from very little heat and vibration. There are other times where I can’t get the liners to separate to save my life and it takes a propane torch and some smacks with a ball peen hammer.
I’ve also seen people attach a work piece with CA glue and turn it on a lathe. That blew me away, because I’ve also had pieces separate with light taps from a rubber mallet.
So if I sound wishy-washy it’s because I haven’t got a clue whether or not there’s a good way to do it that would make me trust the method. I’m sure some of those handles would withstand a nuclear blast, but my gut feeling is that the very next one might pop apart if you dropped the knife on the floor.
The only reason that I trust epoxy is because it stands up to everything that I do to mess it up. If I didn’t I’d use corbys on full tangs and pins on hidden tangs. Some guys do that. I’m satisfied that it isn’t necessary for the intended purpose of my knives, but I only believe that because I’ve proven it to myself. And that, I believe, is the answer to your question. It’s great to ask around but in the end you need to prove it to yourself.
Now, I also grind the liners to shape at the same time after drilling the pin holes and there are times when the glue lets go from very little heat and vibration. There are other times where I can’t get the liners to separate to save my life and it takes a propane torch and some smacks with a ball peen hammer.
I’ve also seen people attach a work piece with CA glue and turn it on a lathe. That blew me away, because I’ve also had pieces separate with light taps from a rubber mallet.
So if I sound wishy-washy it’s because I haven’t got a clue whether or not there’s a good way to do it that would make me trust the method. I’m sure some of those handles would withstand a nuclear blast, but my gut feeling is that the very next one might pop apart if you dropped the knife on the floor.
The only reason that I trust epoxy is because it stands up to everything that I do to mess it up. If I didn’t I’d use corbys on full tangs and pins on hidden tangs. Some guys do that. I’m satisfied that it isn’t necessary for the intended purpose of my knives, but I only believe that because I’ve proven it to myself. And that, I believe, is the answer to your question. It’s great to ask around but in the end you need to prove it to yourself.
Dana Acker
Well-Known Member
For handle scales I like the JB Weld products. The 24 hour cure version when clamped has, so far never failed me. Excess glue in unwanted areas cleans up with acetone before it sets. If a scale slips when clamping, you have plenty of time to reset and reclamp it. The JB Kwik sets like its name says, so be aware of that. After 24 hours, you'd need a jackhammer and C4 to remove the scale. It does grind well, and can even be machined, though that is not in view here. Though I haven't tried it, I've heard that Gorilla Glue "impact tough" c/a glue is not as brittle as the regular stuff when dry.
In the old Neo-Tribal days, for stick tangs in deer leg bone handles, we used to use a Native American glue, which was melted pine pitch, a little beeswax, and something added as an aggregate. Crushed up (old) brick dust worked in the mix, as did wood ashes. Some of our NT brethren even used dried moose dung, as it was more fibrous than other dungs, so I was told. I never doubted moose dung's efficacy, but being that I heated my home with wood, I had an abundance of ashes, so I never took much interest in foraging around for animal droppings as an aggregate. I worried just a little at how a customer might feel about having manure as part of the raw materials, but whatever floats your boat.
Two things about the pine pitch glue, it sets up quickly and holds well, so when pouring it into the hollow bone and inserting the stick tang, work quickly. It helps to warm the tang with a torch too just a little. The other thing is never never never never never get the hot pitch glue on your skin. It's very hot when liquid, and it sticks like super glue to skin. It has to be removed with a knife, along with the affected layer of skin. You WILL have instant empathy for folks back in the day who were unlucky enough to have been tarred and feathered. Just sayin'....
In the old Neo-Tribal days, for stick tangs in deer leg bone handles, we used to use a Native American glue, which was melted pine pitch, a little beeswax, and something added as an aggregate. Crushed up (old) brick dust worked in the mix, as did wood ashes. Some of our NT brethren even used dried moose dung, as it was more fibrous than other dungs, so I was told. I never doubted moose dung's efficacy, but being that I heated my home with wood, I had an abundance of ashes, so I never took much interest in foraging around for animal droppings as an aggregate. I worried just a little at how a customer might feel about having manure as part of the raw materials, but whatever floats your boat.
Two things about the pine pitch glue, it sets up quickly and holds well, so when pouring it into the hollow bone and inserting the stick tang, work quickly. It helps to warm the tang with a torch too just a little. The other thing is never never never never never get the hot pitch glue on your skin. It's very hot when liquid, and it sticks like super glue to skin. It has to be removed with a knife, along with the affected layer of skin. You WILL have instant empathy for folks back in the day who were unlucky enough to have been tarred and feathered. Just sayin'....
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EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Some of the "rubberized" or flexible CA glues MIGHT be successful in holding handle scales, also there are now some "industrial" CA type glues that really straddle the fence on being called CA type glues that may be more shock and heat resistant then common CA glue. If the individual is utilizing some of those, then he/she might be achieving acceptable results.
IMO, Regular, garden variety CA....now way. Regular CA has near zero shock resistance, and the bond is very heat sensitive....meaning that something such as dropping, or a sharp rap, or even laying the knife in a sunny window will break the bond. Based on my experiences/knowledge, saying that CA is "superior" to a quality epoxy for knife handles.... is a long stretch at best.
IMO, Regular, garden variety CA....now way. Regular CA has near zero shock resistance, and the bond is very heat sensitive....meaning that something such as dropping, or a sharp rap, or even laying the knife in a sunny window will break the bond. Based on my experiences/knowledge, saying that CA is "superior" to a quality epoxy for knife handles.... is a long stretch at best.
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tkroenlein
Well-Known Member
I think any adhesive that is readily dissolved by any common solvent is a non starter. While I doubt that there are lots of people who regularly clean a knife with acetone, it just takes one. I wonder what other solvents dissolve CA?
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
The main question I have about using CA for handle scales is “why?”.
Epoxy gives you so much working time and simply works. I can see using CA for subassemblies like holding a ferrule /spacer / handle together on a hidden tang that will all be permanently set by filling the tang hole with epoxy or using a nut on the end of the tang.
Epoxy gives you so much working time and simply works. I can see using CA for subassemblies like holding a ferrule /spacer / handle together on a hidden tang that will all be permanently set by filling the tang hole with epoxy or using a nut on the end of the tang.
Dana Acker
Well-Known Member
There used to be an epoxy that was sold by K&G finishing. It was a two part epoxy that was white. They claimed it was the industry standard adhesive for gluing the club to the shaft on high end golf clubs. I tried it,and had no problems other than on some dark handled knives it looked like I has white spacers between the tang and the handle, because it would not stain. That was 25+ years ago, and so far no complaints or returns.
thanks to all for feedback - as to the question posed "why", it was implied by the individual that in no uncertain terms it is superior to epoxy - i was skeptical of the claim and now VERY skeptical of the claim. i think i just not bother with any "experiments" in this matter. g-flex has always worked just fine - i will stick with that for now !
mike miller
KNIFE MAKER
A couple of friends of mine use it for folder scales. They said epoxy with heat generated curing would warp their folder handle halves. A third had used it for years putting his handles together.
I’m skeptical. There is a reason 2-part is as strong as it is! I am nervous about it anyway. I’ve used only Corby bolts & 2-part for many years now. And I did so much research looking for the *perfect 2-part epoxy. I started using Devcon, 2Ton then switched to System Three T-88, as it’s a Marine epoxy and will cure even in water! I just don’t see how a quick setting 1part adhesive can match this in any way.
I make high performance knives with high performance materials. And I make sure I build them that way. Kinda have to with my warranty.... “If your knife fails due to use or abuse, it’s covered. If you cut it in half with a torch...., IT’S COVERED!
I make high performance knives with high performance materials. And I make sure I build them that way. Kinda have to with my warranty.... “If your knife fails due to use or abuse, it’s covered. If you cut it in half with a torch...., IT’S COVERED!