Etching discussion

Daniel Macina

Daniel Macina

Well-Known Member
Seems like the newest craze now is doing a coffee etch on Damascus and anything else you have to etch rather then a FC etch. Has anyone compared these side by side and which do you prefer?
 
I don't think the coffee is used instead of FeCl, but rather in conjunction with it.

The FeCl is used to get the depth.....coffee used to darken the color.

I think you could get depth with coffee.....eventually. But it might take days or even weeks.

I've used coffee about three times now. Seems a quick dip or two can darken the blacks without affecting the silvers much.
 
That's a pretty broad generalization of pattern welded steel. I would agree that most or all Pakistani Damascus is junk or at least questionable but that stuff is kind of in it's own market.
I use coffee on most of the knives I make made of Damascus from various makers after I etch them with Ferric Chloride, it does blacken up the dark areas and I think it usually looks better.
I don't understand the junk term as all the Damascus I've used hardens nicely, holds an edge and performs well.
I just posted a folder in the folding knives section with a blade of Damasteel - pattern welded steel, and to look at that and say it's junk is knife blasphemy.
Granted...pattern welded steel may not be the do-all, end-all of steels but it certainly stands on it's own in the knife world.
 
One Armed said:
Fake Damascus is used for art....not high performance cutting tools. Will it make a usable knife? Sure. But taking a blade made from welded 1084 and say 15n20 or such.., compared to a straight 1084 blade, the straight 1084 blade will outperform/last in strength & cutting.

Now this is a just a simple representation. I don’t care for any of the 10xx steels, or any simple carbons for that matter. I use CPM3V exclusively for hunting/camping/combat blades & CPM20CV for kitchen/chefs/folder (and anything wet use) blades.

There is a reason knifemakers don’t forge high alloy CPM steels. Because you can heat them red hot and pound away......and these steels will pretty much laugh at ya! Yes, a couple guys have managed to forge 3v. But they sure don’t make a habit of it!

Technology makes improvements as the years pass. Same reason ALL the fastest cars on earth use computer controlled, sequential mapped fuel injection instead of the “good ol’ 4 barrel carburetors” from 4-6 decades ago!

Now I don’t mean to hurt some smith’s feelings. “Pretty” knives with patterns and swirly-jammer deelys are popular. Just not my thing. Absolutly fine for others not to agree. That’s the beauty in living where we do.
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Completely disagree with you....and its not because I make a ton of Damascus or I'm a damascus fanboy. And my feelings aren't hurt.

But your post sounds like a mix of repeated second-hand misinformation and flat out steel snobbery.
 
One Armed said:
Technology makes improvements as the years pass. Same reason ALL the fastest cars on earth use computer controlled, sequential mapped fuel injection instead of the “good ol’ 4 barrel carburetors” from 4-6 decades ago!
Click to expand...

Wow, I'll bet you don't like dirt roads either. :(
 
One Armed said:
Fake Damascus is used for art....not high performance cutting tools. Will it make a usable knife? Sure. But taking a blade made from welded 1084 and say 15n20 or such.., compared to a straight 1084 blade, the straight 1084 blade will outperform/last in strength & cutting.

Now this is a just a simple representation. I don’t care for any of the 10xx steels, or any simple carbons for that matter. I use CPM3V exclusively for hunting/camping/combat blades & CPM20CV for kitchen/chefs/folder (and anything wet use) blades.

There is a reason knifemakers don’t forge high alloy CPM steels. Because you can heat them red hot and pound away......and these steels will pretty much laugh at ya! Yes, a couple guys have managed to forge 3v. But they sure don’t make a habit of it!

Technology makes improvements as the years pass. Same reason ALL the fastest cars on earth use computer controlled, sequential mapped fuel injection instead of the “good ol’ 4 barrel carburetors” from 4-6 decades ago!

Now I don’t mean to hurt some smith’s feelings. “Pretty” knives with patterns and swirly-jammer deelys are popular. Just not my thing. Absolutly fine for others not to agree. That’s the beauty in living where we do.
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Even IF everything you wrote were true none of it makes a 1084 and 15n20 damscus blade “junk”. You did indicate it is just your opinion but I was wondering how many damascus billets and blades you have made and tested to support your opinion? I do not mean to hurt your feelings but you did put a strong opinion out there so its only normal for people to want more info.
 
One Armed said:
And to J Doyle, you are correct to some degree. I do have some bit of steel snobbery. But truth is truth.
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This isn't the first of your recent posts that I noticed it. I found it in poor form that you felt the need to comment on a topic that you, by your own admission, had no first hand experience with but then used it as a reason to shift topics and blanket bash all pattern welded steel, and by implication, the smiths using/making it.

Your comment seemed inflammatory and when asked for more info, the door was opened for you to state why what you do and the why the steels you use are far superior to anything/everyone else.

Your perception of the 'truth' is as skewed as your view on pattern welded steel. There are a host of valid reasons a maker might choose to use simple carbon or stainless steels. And while 'super' steels might surpass them in SOME areas, it doesn't make them 'junk' and it CERTAINLY doesn't make you right and everybody else wrong.

I sincerely hope your participation here doesn't go down the road it has gone down on other forums.
 
I concur...... back to the coffee etch Daniel. I've found on some Damascus it doesn't do a lot while on other pieces it's quite dramatic, I don't know why that is but there's alway's a differance to some degree.

As to actually etching the steel I'm not sure, I've read where it may be more of a "hard Stain" versus a deep etch.
it doesn't rub off so that tells me it's an etch to some degree.
personally I like it and do it to all the Damascus blades I make now, except stainless Damascus.
 
bladegrinder said:
I like it and do it to all the Damascus blades I make now, except stainless Damascus.
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If you can please post a finished pic of the coffee finished blade and a non coffee blade if you can. Coffee is acidic and it stains so I wonder what it would do if used on non-Damascus. How long do you let it sit in the coffee?
 
Not perfect comparison pictures.

Ferric only
Mlu9zJw.jpg


Coffee
wvjRJG4.jpg

mGPYL2d.jpg


How long? Depends on how strong and how hot of water you use. Until you like the color. It comes out almost blue, then fades a little after drying and oiling.

Neither coffee or the carbon left from Ferric only is very durable in use, compared to hot bluing or parkerizing. But coffee sure looks nice for very little effort.
 
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