First knife attempt ... coming up!

2

260 LR

New Member
Okay it's been quite a while since I've been on here, I joined quite a while back but life got in the way big time for about the last two years, but since I did the obligatory Blade Show attendance this year it has renewed my desire to attempt a blade.

So here is the question and the parameters I have set for myself it's going to be strictly stock removal with the bare minimum of knifemaking tools, so I am looking to do something practical and actually be attainable ie. no lofty uber-tactical knife. I am thinking of around a 4" -5" blade chisel grind with a recurve just because I love recurves. Chisel because I think it will be more easily accomplished without getting frustrated about matching grinds on opposing sides and I think a chisel grind is still a practical using edge for some tasks. Full tang construction, possibly tapered if I feel like I can do it and get the balance sorted out. Then I intend to put slabs on it and pay a good bit of attention to the handle shape/design because I place a lot of value on the way the handle feels as opposed to just having square slabs on it. OAL I'm not sure of yet I will wait until I get something drawn up and see what I think looks right and then cross my fingers and hope it feels right :)

Personally I think any attempt will be a great learning process but I don't want to set myself up for failure from the onset. I don't have a design to show you all because unless it is a stick figure or a 3-dimensional box I can't draw it, but I am hoping as I draw a rough sketch on steel and start cutting and grinding something will take form from the original drawing.

Should be starting this one soon as soon as I source some steel, and that choice is probably going to be 1095 or something as easily worked along those lines.

Does anybody see any downsides to the process or the features I have mentioned for this blade idea or does anybody have some suggestions, if you do they would be appreciated!

-Dave-
 
Not sure what you mean by a "bare minimum" of knifemaking tools. My first few knives were made with a "bare minimum" of a hacksaw, drill, vice, and files. If that's your approach I'd keep the blade down to about 3 inches or so. Keep it simple, and leave the recurve until you get a little more experience.

Do you actually want a knife with a chisel grind? Or are you just doing that grind because you assume it will be easier? If you don't want a chisel grind, just go ahead and make the knife you want. As long as you go slow you should be able to keep the grinds fairly even.

Will you do your own heat treat? If so, you might want to try 1084/1080/1075, especially if your HT equipment is also "bare minimum."
 
the only knives i have made from scratch are made from Aldo's 1084. tools used are files, drill, right angle grinder, granite slab with lapping compound, and steel slab with sandpaper. edges are scandi grind. heat treat in fire place.
scott
 
I wouldn't use 1095 unless you want to invest in the fast quench oil. From all the reading I have done you want to either use fast quench oil or water for 1095, you won't get the best knife without it, (however you could use heated Canola oil, still not the best choice).

I would Go with NJStricker's suggestions and make the knife you want and not worry about the chisel grind being easier. I think if you do a flat grind with files you will not only learn more that you could extend to the future but you will be more happy with a flat grind compared to a chisel.

If you can figure out how to make the tapered tang easy, meaning not take FOREVER with the hand tools and paper, I say go for it.
 
Okay I have a question other than the HT is there a benefit or reason to use 1084 compared to 1095, although home HT'ing is an issue but I may have a friend who can HT where he works. Or what are the downsides to 1084 if there are any, I have seen larger blades made of 1084 so it is obviouysly a decent steel.

After thinking a bit I decided to forego the chisel grind, the challenge to myself is why I am attempting a blade so I'll do a hopefully matching flat grind (both sides) blade. Although I do want to attempt a recurve there is no real reason other than I like them, certainly it won't be easier than other blade designs but if I'm successful I would like to have a blade that I like in the end rather than just another utility knife. That said I may very well find out that was an unwise decision and decide to go back to something simpler ie. non-recurved.

I came across a bandsaw and a small Harbor Freight belt sander and I have a Bosch 4 1/2" rotary grinder so I'm not quite as minimum as I was a couple of days ago. I need to source some good files and decide on 1084 vs. 1095 and source the steel as well.

Thanks for the replies!
 
The problem with 1095 is the manganese levels in it that can vary between suppliers and from lot to lot. That means that some will quench in something like peanut oil and some will need water or brine to harden. It also has more carbides, primarily cementite in this case, that can coarsen if exposed to heat for too long. This is particularly problematic when annealing. Something like 1084 generally has a better manganese level to make it a little deeper hardening and has less carbides to worry about. I think that the reason you will see more blades made from 1084 than 1095 is just that it's easier to find 1084 that will harden easily.

As far as downsides to 1084, like all steels it has them and, depending on what one wants out of a steel, the same characteristic can be on either the upside or the downside of the equation. One master smith recently wrote that the advantage to 1095 was it carbide content but the problem with 1095 was it's carbide content. As an advantage the carbides create more wear resistance and better edge holding however, if the steel wasn't handled right in heat treating, the carbides could coarsen and contribute to a more brittle edge and problems in machining, such as drilling. Don't look at the characteristics of a steel as being an advantage or a disadvantage; look at them as indicators of how it will perform.

1084 is a hypereutectic steel, greater than 75-80 points of carbon, that, not having any significant amounts of other elements in the alloy, needs to be soaked only for a short time between the upper and lower critical temperatures to get the carbon into solution with the austinite. It's relatively shallow hardening even with a higher manganese level which will make it usable in clay quenching or creating an "automatic" differential hardening in a full quench. It will be a little harder, stronger, and more wear resistant than a eutectic or hypoeutectic steels but it will be less tough and ductile and maybe just a tad harder to put a good edge on. Differentiating it against higher alloy steels gets involved and I don't want to bore everyone by going into it at this time. Also, I want my breakfast.

Doug
 
260 LR said:
Okay I have a question other than the HT is there a benefit or reason to use 1084 compared to 1095, although home HT'ing is an issue but I may have a friend who can HT where he works. Or what are the downsides to 1084 if there are any, I have seen larger blades made of 1084 so it is obviouysly a decent steel.

After thinking a bit I decided to forego the chisel grind, the challenge to myself is why I am attempting a blade so I'll do a hopefully matching flat grind (both sides) blade. Although I do want to attempt a recurve there is no real reason other than I like them, certainly it won't be easier than other blade designs but if I'm successful I would like to have a blade that I like in the end rather than just another utility knife. That said I may very well find out that was an unwise decision and decide to go back to something simpler ie. non-recurved.

I came across a bandsaw and a small Harbor Freight belt sander and I have a Bosch 4 1/2" rotary grinder so I'm not quite as minimum as I was a couple of days ago. I need to source some good files and decide on 1084 vs. 1095 and source the steel as well.

Thanks for the replies!
Click to expand...

1084 vs. 1095--You are really asking 2 different questions here. For experienced makers with the proper equipment I think many would favor 1095. For most users, you would be hard pressed to tell the difference.

But the real question here is 1084 vs. 1095 in the hands on an inexperienced maker with the "bare minimum" of tools and likely the same for heat treat equipment, unless you send your blade out to be professionally HT'd. If you are going to attempt the heat treat yourself with the intent of keeping overall costs down and learning something in the process, then go with 1084. Without getting into the chemistry, you can get better results with minimum equipment from 1084 than you would with 1095. Is 1095 a better steel? Maybe marginally so, but your chances of getting the most out of that steel is small unless you send the blade out to a professional heat treat service that is familiar with heat treating for knives.

Keep your first design simple. Small blade, thin so you don't have to remove too much stock to get a good cutting geometry, simple handle without too many curves/indents so that you don't struggle with shaping the handle.
 
Hard part with a recurve is keeping an even grind around the arcs, which is true of all but a wharny edge to some degree, but a recurve is nothing but arc, like a stretched s. I had a hard enough time on my first knife, flat grind, straight spine, making the belly match in thickness with the straight, I'd encourage you to save that for a later knife. Have fun!

My brain shorted out with "hypereutectic" so I'm afraid I'm not much use on the difference between 1084 vs. 1095 other than 1084 seemed a lot easier to work with manually.
 
whatever way you go both steels are good you just want to soak the 1095 at a certain temp between 5 10 min thats the tricky part for the beginner with out a oven to hold temps. Good luck and just have fun.
 
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