Grinder kit ups and downs

S

Smurf masher

Well-Known Member
Had major issues getting this kit delivered https://knifedogs.com/threads/another-mill-minimum-question.53435/post-433624

I made my order on the 24th of may. I recieved a tracking number for delivery a week later. The item was then set to delivered, but it never arrived. I checked the tracking info under the complaints process for Royal mail and the postcode it was sent to did not match mine. (wouldnt say what postcode, but it was not mine)

He then emailed me back after I complained and provided photo evidence that he delivered to the wrong address. He said it was a mistake and I got someone elses tracking number and would sort it in a week. I waited 10 days, chased him up today and he sent me the exact same tracking number as a new one to track.
 
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OK... I may have over reacted..

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"Hi Paul,


I updated your order today because your order is ready and will be collected tomorrow. It is not possible to remove a tracking number from an order, but I added the new, correct tracking number when I marked the order as fulfilled, you can see it below the old tracking number in the screenshot. I've pasted it here for your convenience: 2022060709209750003322, courier is APC Overnight. Expected delivery date is Thursday.


I'm sorry for the confusion around the incorrect tracking number, but you'll find your kit delivered exactly as, and when, advertised. As you've identified, this isn't my only job, and neither of them are web design, I'm still actively working on slowly improving that experience when I have the opportunity, I have switched to a new contact form which is linked at the top of every page. The aforementioned job means that customer support usually happens via email on a daily cycle early in the morning. If you'd like to cancel your order, I can process a refund immediately, I wouldn't want to do business if both of us aren't happy about it, but please let me know by about 2PM before the parcels are collected. I will check my inbox this afternoon before collection.


I sincerely hope that the rest of this order goes smoothly and we can both be happy with the outcome!


Kind Regards,



Jake Sedge"

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His newly sent tracking number does now check out.
 
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Smurf masher said:
OK... I may have over reacted.
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LOL! It happens.

So.... ya gonna keep both grinders? :)

Might not be a bad idea to build both of them, decide which one works best for you, and sell the other one. You aught to be able to turn a little profit, since you put in the work to assemble it.

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52 Ford said:
LOL! It happens.

So.... ya gonna keep both grinders? :)

Might not be a bad idea to build both of them, decide which one works best for you, and sell the other one. You aught to be able to turn a little profit, since you put in the work to assemble it.

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I think I will make both. It depends on the quote I get for the CNC cutting. If it is cheap enough, I'll get the plates cut and build that one bit by bit with spare cash I have left over each month. Can't be bad to have a rapid stock removal grinder and a fine grit one setup. they will both be quite small. Also, I'm thinking of getting into the fusion 3d side of things, modify and customise my own design, as software is my main skillset, and see if I can design and make proper knife grinders to order. Might be another little revenue stream.

Worst case, I make both and sell one. Might be enough profit to get bulk orders done by the lazer cutters and pump out decent grinders.
 
Smurf masher said:
I think I will make both. It depends on the quote I get for the CNC cutting. If it is cheap enough, I'll get the plates cut and build that one bit by bit with spare cash I have left over each month. Can't be bad to have a rapid stock removal grinder and a fine grit one setup. they will both be quite small. Also, I'm thinking of getting into the fusion 3d side of things, modify and customise my own design, as software is my main skillset, and see if I can design and make proper knife grinders to order. Might be another little revenue stream.

Worst case, I make both and sell one. Might be enough profit to get bulk orders done by the lazer cutters and pump out decent grinders.
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Yeah, lots of different avenues you could go down.

Fusion 360 is nice and my primary CAD software. HOWEVER, I suggest you get Solidworks. https://www.solidworks.com/solution/company-type/entrepreneurs-startups

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Another 3D program you might look at is FreeCAD. Many aspects are similar to Fusion, but it's totally free and all your work is on your on computer. There is a "Hardware" guy on youtube over in England that has a good tutorial series on both FreeCAD and Fusion.
 
KenH said:
Another 3D program you might look at is FreeCAD. Many aspects are similar to Fusion, but it's totally free and all your work is on your on computer. There is a "Hardware" guy on youtube over in England that has a good tutorial series on both FreeCAD and Fusion.
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Thank you both!! I think I need to get into cad, as I want to utilise lazer cut services for tables, and all sorts of kit for my shop. I cant just buy premade plans each time. Got some very custom ideas.
 
OK so I have the new tracking number and it is showing as a due delivery date of tomorrow. So it's looking to be finally sorted.
On the other hand I have a quote from the lazer cutting company and cutting including materials in mild steel come to £201 including delivery.

1654685532993.png


Which I think is pretty bloody good! Add in a motor for say 150 quid, a VFD and an 80 quid set of allumium core rollers on amazon, and the total would be around 500 ish.
 
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OK finally got it. and it looks good with clean cuts. I emailed the guy and thanked him plus apologised for my impatience with the deliveries. (I had to drive to the depot and pick it up myself in the end)

But now I have another question... Many grinder kits come with three phase motors and then have a VFD that converts single phase to three phase, and this inverter also controlls the speed.

Why??? The VFD's are expensive, 100-200, and why do you need one? Why not just use a potentiomoter? like this:

WINGONEER AC 220V 4000W High Power SCR Electronic Voltage Regulator Governor Dimmer Thermostat Speed Controller : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop WINGONEER AC 220V 4000W High Power SCR Electronic Voltage Regulator Governor Dimmer Thermostat Speed Controller. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.
www.amazon.co.uk
 
Smurf masher said:
OK finally got it. and it looks good with clean cuts. I emailed the guy and thanked him plus apologised for my impatience with the deliveries. (I had to drive to the depot and pick it up myself in the end)

But now I have another question... Many grinder kits come with three phase motors and then have a VFD that converts single phase to three phase, and this inverter also controlls the speed.

Why??? The VFD's are expensive, 100-200, and why do you need one? Why not just use a potentiomoter? like this:

WINGONEER AC 220V 4000W High Power SCR Electronic Voltage Regulator Governor Dimmer Thermostat Speed Controller : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop WINGONEER AC 220V 4000W High Power SCR Electronic Voltage Regulator Governor Dimmer Thermostat Speed Controller. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.
www.amazon.co.uk
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Most motors will not run on a speed controller. You only see low HP/watt PSC motors work reliably like that.
 
Smurf masher said:
OK finally got it. and it looks good with clean cuts. I emailed the guy and thanked him plus apologised for my impatience with the deliveries. (I had to drive to the depot and pick it up myself in the end)

But now I have another question... Many grinder kits come with three phase motors and then have a VFD that converts single phase to three phase, and this inverter also controlls the speed.

Why??? The VFD's are expensive, 100-200, and why do you need one? Why not just use a potentiomoter? like this:

WINGONEER AC 220V 4000W High Power SCR Electronic Voltage Regulator Governor Dimmer Thermostat Speed Controller : Amazon.co.uk: DIY & Tools

Shop WINGONEER AC 220V 4000W High Power SCR Electronic Voltage Regulator Governor Dimmer Thermostat Speed Controller. Free delivery on eligible orders of £20 or more.
www.amazon.co.uk
Click to expand...
The speed of a 3 phase induction motor can be varied by changing the frequency which its running at. Single phase, not so much.

If you want to use a single phase motor and still be able to vary the speed, you're looking at either stepped pulleys or using a brushed motor (AKA universal motor).

The "brushless" cordless tools you can buy now are using what is basically a small 3 phase motor and a bunch of logic to control it. There's a sensor (hall effect, prolly) that let's the tool know how fast it's spinning and adjusts how much "juice" is being sent to the motor to reach and hold whatever speed is being demanded by the trigger.... something like that. I'm sick. Bare with me.

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52 Ford said:
The speed of a 3 phase induction motor can be varied by changing the frequency which its running at. Single phase, not so much.

If you want to use a single phase motor and still be able to vary the speed, you're looking at either stepped pulleys or using a brushed motor (AKA universal motor).

The "brushless" cordless tools you can buy now are using what is basically a small 3 phase motor and a bunch of logic to control it. There's a sensor (hall effect, prolly) that let's the tool know how fast it's spinning and adjusts how much "juice" is being sent to the motor to reach and hold whatever speed is being demanded by the trigger.... something like that. I'm sick. Bare with me.

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Thank you. Very darn useful.
 
Smurf masher said:
Thank you. Very darn useful.
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Hope it helps.

You could also use a treadmill motor. They're usually around the 2HP mark. All of the ones I've encountered are PMDC motors. I believe in "treadmill duty" they max out at 90VDC, though the motors are rated for 120VDC.

I saved one from a treadmill that we had and it's 2.65HP@120VDC and something like 9,000RPM. It has a fairly large cast iron flywheel and a ribbed belt pulley on it. The motor itself is much more compact than an induction motor. I'm not sure what "normal" theadmills have for motors. This was a commercial model, like what you'd find at a gym.

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52 Ford said:
Hope it helps.

You could also use a treadmill motor. They're usually around the 2HP mark. All of the ones I've encountered are PMDC motors. I believe in "treadmill duty" they max out at 90VDC, though the motors are rated for 120VDC.

I saved one from a treadmill that we had and it's 2.65HP@120VDC and something like 9,000RPM. It has a fairly large cast iron flywheel and a ribbed belt pulley on it. The motor itself is much more compact than an induction motor. I'm not sure what "normal" theadmills have for motors. This was a commercial model, like what you'd find at a gym.

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Well the weld together kit has a motor included, a 3hp one. This one: https://www.signetid.co.uk/?i=572765

The other kit arrives monday (the one I got lazer cut from 20 quid plans on ebay)

I also found a working tredmill on Ebay for £85 but it only has a 1.1kw motor. I think I need at least 1.5k to 2k
www.bluefinfitness.com

Bluefin KICK 2.0 Treadmill

Bluefin Fitness KICK 2.0 Innovative High Speed Folding Treadmill is ultra powerful for a realistic running experience at home. Buy NOW!
www.bluefinfitness.com www.bluefinfitness.com

I think I will buy a three phase motor that is stepped down with a VFD inverter that turns a standard household single phase and turns it into a three phase. Like this for 180 https://www.motorcontrolwarehouse.co.uk/invertek-ode-3-120070-1f12-optidrive-e3.html

It turns out that three phase motors are about 100 quid cheaper like for like in power to single phase. So the actual price difference is actually around 100 quid more for a speed adjustable grinder.

This three phase motor https://www.signetid.co.uk/all-products/electric-motors/three-phase-motors/2.2kw-3hp/2.223tecab14
2.223TECAB352.2Kw 90Frame 2P 3Ph B35£173.77 excl. VAT
£208.52 inc. VAT

Combine that with the VFD above or a cheaper version from amazon which will handle a 2.2kw three phase motor for £95 https://www.amazon.co.uk/Fictory-Motor-Speed-Controller-Single-phase/dp/B08DL24NNX/ref=sr_1_11?crid=15SU092CKVGWL&keywords=vfd+inverter&qid=1654979061&sprefix=vfd+inverter,aps,95&sr=8-11

add on the rollers £86 https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B079MHM...olid=1X9IUHMR2OP75&psc=1&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

(and add another single roller for the extension)

So thats 86 rollers + 95 vfd + 201 for lazer cut frame + 208 for the motor.

And you get a 3hp 2x72" variable speed grinder for £590 including VAT (which I can claim)
 
You're going to want to get a slightly bigger VFD than you actually need. I don't deal with them enough to remember what the rule of thumb is... 33%? I dunno. 2,200W is roughly 3HP. I recommend going with a 5HP VFD... Keep in mind, just because the VFD is rated for 5HP, doesn't mean it needs to be hooked to a 5HP motor. Like ATX PSUs. There are about 750 watts in a HP (745, I think).

By the way, how's the anvil hunt going?

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52 Ford said:
You're going to want to get a slightly bigger VFD than you actually need. I don't deal with them enough to remember what the rule of thumb is... 33%? I dunno. 2,200W is roughly 3HP. I recommend going with a 5HP VFD... Keep in mind, just because the VFD is rated for 5HP, doesn't mean it needs to be hooked to a 5HP motor. Like ATX PSUs. There are about 750 watts in a HP (745, I think).

By the way, how's the anvil hunt going?

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Again thank you for your advice! I'll defo get a bigger one than I need, now you have advised that it's a good idea. I don't want to blow a fuse each time I power up a grinder. But the 2nd grinder wont get made for ages, as I still have not moved, and I'll be using the fixed speed grinder to start with. And I've got no more spare cash to blow until I start earning somthing from what I make. But I'm happy with the startup kit I've gotten.

I got my anvil! It needs a surface grind to smooth it out, but it's a good one I think. Damn heavy, 14 inches high, 26 inches long. I got it for £190

1654988882286.png
 
Smurf masher said:
Again thank you for your advice! I'll defo get a bigger one than I need, now you have advised that it's a good idea. I don't want to blow a fuse each time I power up a grinder. But the 2nd grinder wont get made for ages, as I still have not moved, and I'll be using the fixed speed grinder to start with. And I've got no more spare cash to blow until I start earning somthing from what I make. But I'm happy with the startup kit I've gotten.

I got my anvil! It needs a surface grind to smooth it out, but it's a good one I think. Damn heavy, 14 inches high, 26 inches long. I got it for £190

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Nice!

An alternative to surface grinding or milling the face of the anvil is to build it up with weld. I believe you mentioned that you TIG weld. Are you a decent stick welder?

https://www.anvilmag.com/smith/anvilres.htm when ever I've talked about anvil repair, this method gets brought up and is regarded as the best by many.

The hard facing rods are pretty expensive... but so are good anvils.

As far as tripping breakers goes, VFDs usually can be configured to "soft start". The current is slowly ramped up on start vs full power all at once. It gives the motor time to "spool up" instead of being hit with the full 240V all at once.

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Honestly, that anvil looks to be in very good shape and you can start forging with it right away.

The base that you put it on and how you anchor it will make a huge difference.

I suggest you get a big chunk-o-wood.

The log that my anvil is on is a big piece of White Oak. It's about 300 pounds not counting the anvil. I have steel bolts driven into the face of the log and bent over the feet.

It helps deaden the ring of the anvil. I don't care if the anvil rings like a bell or if a ball bearing perpetually bounces on the face. That ringing is REALLLLLLLYY annoying in use and if you're hammer is bouncing off the face of your anvil, it's cause you missed. That looks to be a wrought iron anvil, so I'm not sure how hard the face will be (OBVIOUSLY hard enough... it's lasted this long!)

Have you started collecting hammers, yet?

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52 Ford said:
Honestly, that anvil looks to be in very good shape and you can start forging with it right away.

The base that you put it on and how you anchor it will make a huge difference.

I suggest you get a big chunk-o-wood.

The log that my anvil is on is a big piece of White Oak. It's about 300 pounds not counting the anvil. I have steel bolts driven into the face of the log and bent over the feet.

It helps deaden the ring of the anvil. I don't care if the anvil rings like a bell or if a ball bearing perpetually bounces on the face. That ringing is REALLLLLLLYY annoying in use and if you're hammer is bouncing off the face of your anvil, it's cause you missed. That looks to be a wrought iron anvil, so I'm not sure how hard the face will be (OBVIOUSLY hard enough... it's lasted this long!)

Have you started collecting hammers, yet?

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I'm going to test the anvil when I grind all the multiple layers of old paint off the surface then do a hardness test. If it still has a hard steel top layer and I can smooth it out, I'll leave it at that. If it's not no steel left at all I may well try your weld the top up approach. I can weld, but I last did it 20 years ago! So I'll defo be practicing a bit on scrap before I dive back in, but I wasn't bad before, my dad was a good teacher and showed me how to change the pattern of stick movement if going up or down or left or right to ensure you didn't burn too long in one spot, but still keep the pool molten. I've still got a pretty steady hand so I should be OK when I get back on it.

I was planning of welding up a steel box and filling it with sand to dampen the anvil. As for the soft start, is that VFDs only or can the motor type be part of that as well? I saw a range of low torque startup motors?

As for hammers.. I'm holding off. I bought a cheap modern one, and the plan is to make my own with that one and the flypress.
 
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