Hello all, just some questions about railroad spikes

R

RossGa

New Member
My name is Ross and I am a novice bladesmith. Just a quick question, more than likely more to follow. Do RR spikes make good knives? I am not talking about forming one out of the actual spike, but banging it out in a forge into bar stock and forming it. I know there are different types, I am using the ones marked "HC". Thanks. Bonus: what I got so far.
GetAttachment.aspx.jpg
Sorry about the size, I only have my phone camera.
 
"Good" would be a relative term, I would say, as far as RR spike knives go. I do believe that "HC" (or sometimes just "H") is supposed to denote "High Carbon", but according to some spec sheets I've seen in the past, the "high" is actually a bit low at about .20% to .30% carbon.

This would be equivalent to something like 1020 or 1030 steel. If they were in fact made out of truly high carbon steel, they would be much more brittle and prone to cracking and breaking when hammered into place or bent over.

So long story short, you'll be able to get it harder than mild steel, and probably even put a decent edge on it, but it's probably not gonna last for very long.
 
Last edited:
Borrowed this from a post in another forum:


According to the American Railway Engineering Association's Specifications for Soft-Steel Track Spikes. Original document, 1926, revised last in 1968. Two classes of track spikes are given specifications. Two sizes of track spike are identified, one of 5/8 inch square shaft and one of 9/16 inch.

The AREA document identifies both low carbon and high carbon spike specifications.

Page 5-2-1. A low carbon track spike will not contain greater than 0.12% carbon nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-2. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 180 degrees flat on itself without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-2 Section 11. Marking. A letter or brand indicating the manufacturer shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added.

Page 5-2-3: Specifications for high carbon steel track spikes 1968. Carbon not greater than 0.30%, nor greater than 0.20% copper. Page 5-2-4. Section 6a. Bending properties: The body of a full size finished spike shall stand being bent cold through 120 degrees around a pin, the diameter of which is not greater than the thickness of the spike without cracking on the outside portion of the bent portion. Page 5-2-5 Section 11. Marking: A letter or brand indicating manufacturer and also the letters "HC" indicating high carbon, shall be pressed on the head of each spike while it is being formed. When copper is specified, the letters "CU" shall be added.

The supplemental fax from the Wellington fellow indicates, "Because of the bending tests required, the carbon content will not be greater than 0.30%. After all, brittle spikes would not be desirable as a track spike. A bent spike still holds the rail while a fractured spike would not. The consequences for the industry would be too great to consider. However, we refer to them as high carbon, they are not within the range of steels known as high carbon or hypereutectoid according to the steel industry standards, and have not been since at least 1926, when most track spikes were previously manufactured from wrought iron."
 
Now, that's not to say you couldn't forge weld some 1080 or 1095 into the middle of the spike...

I've seen a smith do similiar while making a RR spike tomahawk.
 
RossGa said:
My name is Ross and I am a novice bladesmith. Just a quick question, more than likely more to follow. Do RR spikes make good knives? I am not talking about forming one out of the actual spike, but banging it out in a forge into bar stock and forming it. I know there are different types, I am using the ones marked "HC". Thanks. Bonus: what I got so far.
View attachment 29426

In a word, no. They make make conversation pieces, or letter openers. Not real knives.
Click to expand...
 
RR spikes are OK for making "novelty" items.
Many times another person will see something made out of one, then they want to make one (or have you make it).
If it's a case of someone else insisting that you make a "spike knife" for them, well, we all know the saying about the customer.

Andrew pretty much laid it all out. You can't really expect to make a decent cutting tool that will hold an edge unless you forge-weld a better steel for the edge.

With that said, RR spikes do have their place. Keeping in mind that a bladesmith is simply a specialized blacksmith, spikes can be an economical source of steel to develop basic blacksmithing skills.
Remember, there are many things besides knives that can be made from spikes.
I once saw some unique paperweights shaped in the form of snakes at a farm auction. Also seen a set of bookends made from several spikes welded together at the same auction.
Coathooks, hat racks, doorknockers.
In one old shop I visited, all the tool hooks on the wall were made from them. The same shop had a huge workbench (probably well over 100 years old) that used the spikes to pin the joints.
Then you have the items that may perform no useful function, but are simply appreciated due to the talent that was required to make them. (Most folks call this "art".)
I suppose the only limit is the imagination of the smith.

If you're set on using them for making knives, they're good to develop the forging skills, and also good to learn forge welding when you weld on a proper edge.
Some have reported varying degrees of success with a "super quench"; I cannot comment on it. I would much rather have the edge made out of steel designed for the purpose.
Besides low carbon content, another drawback seems to be the copper content, which is good for ductility but not necessarily good for an edge.
 
What everyone is trying to tell you is that the steel in them is not really good enough to make a good quality knife. They are interesting to look at when done but they are of such low carbon quality even the HC ones that they won't hold an edge good at all. The one thing I have learned about using them is forge techniques, and hammer control. They are good practice for watching your metal move.
Then you are left scratching your head and thinking but why did the metal move that way, and how do I stop that from happening again? One thing about when your done you may have something interesting looking and you learned what to do or not to do!
 
Thank you all, I kind of figured that was the case. I will continue to practice my techniques on them until I feel more comfortable enough to try my hand at some higher carbon content
 
The jist of Andrew's post is that the alloy for railroad spikes are optimized for toughness, the ability to resist breakage. What increases toughness tends to decrease hardness and edge retention along with it. If I was trying to get the best performance from a high carbon railroad spine, and that's high carbon compared with low carbon spikes, I would water quench it and then temper at 300 degrees stresses from forging.

Wayne Goddard in one of his books said that if you want to make a good railroad spike knife to forge a bar of steel that is good for knifemaking into a railroad spike shaped object first and then draw out the blade. The reason that I say a railroad spike shaped object is that if you refere back to Andrew' post on the spike requirements an alloy with enough carbon and low copper to make a blade from cannot be used to make a railroad spike. Upsetting one end to form the head will be a lot of work, not to mention making a heading tool. Either way you go, it's just not worth it.

Doug
 
I learned a great deal about blacksmithing using rr spikes, worn horse shoes, tines from old dump rakes etc.. I continue to be much more of a blacksmith than a bladesmith. One silly but well recieved project is to flatten the head of your spike, split the point 1/4 of the way down and twist these arms then split and lift a new point to make a cross, twist that top and use a punch to make a heart shape in the center and melt red glass to fill the hole. In the eighties I was selling these trinkets for $20.00 each and doing the production work certainly increased my forging speed. In the end I was making about 50 in a day when I was serious about working. As a part of a blacksmithing group we would each pick a few production items, mass produce them then sell them in strip malls for Christmas we would sell each others work and therby have enough product veriety to satisfy our customers. Setting up a little portable forge and burning some coal was always good for drawing all the customers that we could want. As a beginning knife maker it is not your worst means of moving product. Just be sure that you have low end trinkets as well as high end knives.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top