How do you grind?

T

Tim Peterson

Guest
I cut out my first knife and did the grinding of the blade. I am wondering if there is anybody that can give me some pointers on grinding a blade because it took me a long time to finish the blade. I am ready to heat treat my first blade next week. I have finished cutting out my second knife and finishing the grinding. The second knife went better in grinding. I will post pictures as a I go starting next week.
 
Self Made Knives said:
Pointer #1
Grind 20 more.
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I wish there was a thumbs up button on this forum. That's actually the best advice. My first three blades were a travesty and then #s 4-20 were night and day from one to the next. You really just have to develop the muscle memory to develop form. And just when you think your getting somewhere you'll sneeze and obliterate your grind lines. Lol
 
I use a jig. Someday I will learn to freehand. I have a lot to learn before I get to that point.
 
My firs 5 were filed and hand sanded. My next 10 2x42 grinder with a guard clamp I made to try and keep the plunge lines straight. Then I bought a 2x72. After about 60 more knives I thought I was grinding my forged blades pretty good till I was at Bill Wiggins' shop in North Carolina. Both he and Daniel Warren, spent about 10 hours improving my techniques. Proper stance, arm-elbow-body position, body movement not arm moment, and nourishing criticism that helped me improve.

Most importantly in my case "No Jigs!"

See if you can find someone that does it that's willing to show you how.

Edit: I flat grind with 90% Moran Edge and 10% Scandi.
 
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Self Made Knives said:
Pointer #1
Grind 20 more.
Click to expand...

Im in the same boat as Tim and figured this was the answer. Ive tried free hand and using a jig and to be honest while both methods produce poor results for me at present I actually do better free hand than with the jig. It seems as if I can get more accurate and even pressure that way.

What I have done to date with my 3 blades is start at the belt grinder making sure to leave a little meat, then I move over to another file jig I have and use a hand file to finish the bevel. That way I havent ruined any blades but it does take a lot longer.
 
I flat grind and hollow grind. And I use a jig now. Have been grinding for 35 years and I wished I had started using a jig 35 years ago. My grinds were always very good because I worked at it. But now they are darn near perfect. When I got in the Guild it was preached that you should only grind by hand. Baloney. I have been told that you are not a knife maker if you can't grind freehand. My customers don't care if my grinds are done freehand or not. They just want a good knife. I can still freehand and I do when it is something that I can do quick. But using a jig the grinds are a lot better. The point here is to learn to grind the way you want to. There is nothing wrong with how you make a knife your way.
 
Thank you Tom for your kind words on jigs. I am getting better freehand grinding, but it's MUCH better for me to use a jig for establishing the main bevel, then tend to move toward freehand for final grind..... sometimes that is. Other times it's jig all the way. "IF" I were grinding 20 knives per week I'm sure I'd get to freehand. Since I'm in this as a hobby, I don't grind enough blades in a month to learn that muscle memory.

The Bubble Jig works pretty good for learning also - and the Bubble Jig clamp makes a really good file guide.

Ken H>
 
KenH said:
Thank you Tom for your kind words on jigs. I am getting better freehand grinding, but it's MUCH better for me to use a jig for establishing the main bevel, then tend to move toward freehand for final grind..... sometimes that is. Other times it's jig all the way. "IF" I were grinding 20 knives per week I'm sure I'd get to freehand. Since I'm in this as a hobby, I don't grind enough blades in a month to learn that muscle memory.

The Bubble Jig works pretty good for learning also - and the Bubble Jig clamp makes a really good file guide.



Ken H>
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You are doing the right thing by developing your own technique by using jigs and free hand. The knife shown with white handles is free hand ground and the knife with the dark handles was ground with a jig.

DSC00724.JPG DSC01020.JPG
 
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Judging from your signature, I suspect you have pretty good mentoring available to you. :s11041:

I made my first 8 or 10 knives without ever having watched anyone do it. When I finally got a chance to watch Ed Storch grinding, it made a huge light bulb go on. Practice does not make perfect. Practice makes permanent. Make sure you are practicing right.

Rob!
 
tomwatson said:
I flat grind and hollow grind. And I use a jig now. Have been grinding for 35 years and I wished I had started using a jig 35 years ago. My grinds were always very good because I worked at it. But now they are darn near perfect. When I got in the Guild it was preached that you should only grind by hand. Baloney. I have been told that you are not a knife maker if you can't grind freehand. My customers don't care if my grinds are done freehand or not. They just want a good knife. I can still freehand and I do when it is something that I can do quick. But using a jig the grinds are a lot better. The point here is to learn to grind the way you want to. There is nothing wrong with how you make a knife your way.
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Thanks for not making me feel like a pariah.
 
tomwatson said:
You are doing the right thing by developing your own technique by using jigs and free hand. The knife shown with white handles is free hand ground and the knife with the dark handles was ground with a jig.

View attachment 53664 View attachment 53665
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Tom,
ˇthe free hand ground white handled folder looks far more attractive to me.

I use one of Bruce Bump's File guides to establish the ricasso grind line than its full Flat to the top with a slight con vexing of the blade about a inch or two from the edge depending on the pattern. I started with hand files, then went to a 2 x 48" then bought a 2 x 72.

I've only done a few hollows. I just prefer FFGs since I make mostly culinary and a few hunters.

MOHO is that while jigs help and have their place my ideas and concepts for my designs grew at a faster rate from learning how to shape metal free hand first.

Also I do all of my bevel grinding post HT. I get a crisp grind and when I'm done with finishing grinding I'm done.

The make 20 more quote is really what it takes but more important is to analyze each knife of those 20 and see where you need to improve on the next one!
 
Yeah I like that one just from the design. I have seen a good bit of your work and everything you make is well thought out. You do a good job. The white handle has a much finer rub and that makes the other knife look somewhat rougher. The jig was a necessity for me after Parkinson's set in. What I like about a jig is you can hit the same spot over and over and just take off what you need. What gets me is the number of makers who are trying to tell you that you should only learn one way. It is like the opinions about forging vs stock removal, flat grinding vs hollow grinding. They need to help the knowledge flow.
 
I have ground blades freehand but now that I have a "fixture", I grind much faster! I can take off more meat with the jig.
 
tomwatson said:
Yeah I like that one just from the design. I have seen a good bit of your work and everything you make is well thought out. You do a good job. The white handle has a much finer rub and that makes the other knife look somewhat rougher. The jig was a necessity for me after Parkinson's set in. What I like about a jig is you can hit the same spot over and over and just take off what you need. What gets me is the number of makers who are trying to tell you that you should only learn one way. It is like the opinions about forging vs stock removal, flat grinding vs hollow grinding. They need to help the knowledge flow.
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Tom,
Yep! Us knife makers certainly can suffer from self righteous constipation! I did it the hard way so you should do it the same way, type mentality is too common amount us. :wacko:

I just had a disc taken out of my neck at C-5-6 on Weds because I was losing strength and cord nation in my hands. Hopefully it will be better now but I have no qualms about using a jig or even having a apprentice or other maker grind my blades for me if necessary.

As long as you are honest about your process to your customers everything is fine in my book.

I wish you the very best on adapting to your needs.
 
One of my big stumbling blocks is adjusting what I think my hands are doing to reality.
In other words I think I'm grinding on a certain part of the blade when I'm not, Keep looking and nothing is happening in the area of focus.
A black sharpy helps here, and the big thing is to get the correction transmitted to your body. The more you grind without correction the more ingrained the miscommunication becomes.
Grind
Observe
Adjust
Alot of times I think each hand is applying equal pressure which probably is true but the distance from the grind point to each hand is not equal distance so leverage plays a part. Also twist, position on the wheel, speed , so many things.
I want to make a kitchen knife but never learned to flat grind, still trying to perfect my hollow grinds, did I mention that grinding is the hardest most frustrating part of knifemaking for me.
I'm gonna make slippys, nice small blades and a lot of bench time.
 
tomwatson said:
Yeah I like that one just from the design. I have seen a good bit of your work and everything you make is well thought out. You do a good job. The white handle has a much finer rub and that makes the other knife look somewhat rougher. The jig was a necessity for me after Parkinson's set in. What I like about a jig is you can hit the same spot over and over and just take off what you need. What gets me is the number of makers who are trying to tell you that you should only learn one way. It is like the opinions about forging vs stock removal, flat grinding vs hollow grinding. They need to help the knowledge flow.
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Good Post Tom .. I think no matter how you do it is the end result . What you make today and what you make next year are usually a lot different . At least for me. I started free hand and tossed many blades in the trash. Frustration set in. I found that a lot of new people rush to get it done.. I understand why we do that. We want to see the end result . My advice for what it is worth is to slow down and take your time. Try and remember the pressure plays a role . should be equal on both sides . I use a Bump file guide . It is a excellent product. I also use Fred's Bubble jig . That little tool is so simple but effective . Now

I just have to set my grind and just walk it up free hand. I only do it that way because It is faster. If you stray from your grind you can fall back to the bubble to even it up. Its all about the end result . Have fun with it and try to do better every blade. You will see improvement as time goes by.
 
The thing that has really helped me out is hand sanding. I know the thread is about grinding but what I've learned is that I don't have to worry about getting the grind lines absolutely perfect on the grinder because I can adjust things slightly when hand sanding. Watching Nick Wheeler's youtube videos really helped.


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