Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
I thought this was quite cool. It shows almost the entire process. This is a Facebook link so...if not cool I'll remove it.
Samurai Sword making
Samurai Sword making
Making a Japanese Samurai Sword
- Thread starter Sean Jones
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Mister Coffee
Well-Known Member
Very cool. A simple process, yet fascinating to watch. (Or maybe it just seems simple in the hands of a master.)
It's a pretty lengthy process! They start with raw tamahagane, forge it down to the discs, break it and re stack it based on carbon content. Water quenching right from forging should make the steel very brittle and large grain, but it took several strikes to break some pieces. The steel is stacked, covered and doused in mud and then forged down and folded numerous times to make a billet. The swords are usually made with 2 bars, one lower carbon (higher durability) and one higher carbon content (edge holding), each bar going through the above process (after the carbon content is graded and assessed) and then combined. Often the harder steel is wrapped around the softer steel so you have a hard edge and a softer core/spine. Some blades use more bars/layers of steel to make the blade, but 2 layers (Kobuse) was the most common historically. Then the remainder of the forging, scraping/filing, heat treating process, followed by grinding/polishing the blade on stones, and getting the Habaki and shirasaya fit to the blade as well. The sword passes through the hands of many craftsmen typically!
opaul
Well-Known Member
I watched a video similar to this a while back but it was an American guy doing the making. Thanks for the explanation - I couldn't figure out why he was breaking stuff up and mixing it with other stuff. I believe in some scenes it looked like he was pressing weeds or dry grass into the mixture. But it all began from a mud built furnace where he pulled out material and began working it, similar to this video.
Yeah, a Tatara furnace is what they use. Black Iron sand is smelted with charcoal over a long time period (couple days in Japan typically) where they keep adding more sand and charcoal. It creates a big chunk, which is then further broken down and graded by quality and carbon. How they do that I have no idea! I have a few chunks of Tamahagane, but I am not brave enough to forge it!
They forge down the chunks into a flat billet and break it up. The chunks have impurities in them, so the first flattening gets a lot of that out and solidifies the chunk, which is a bit porous. They break it up to help redistribute the steel more evenly to make it more homogeneous and keep folding and forging the steel down to remove the impurities and make it a cleaner billet.
They use straw and ash to coat the billet and then apply a mud slurry? The slurry is ash and stone dust IIRC with water to make a mud to kinda seal over the billet. I believe this is to keep the carbon from burning out in scale/decarb? I have a book from Japan I gotta find; I think they discuss it in the book a bit.
I was big into Japanese swords several years ago and have a bunch of books and stuff. I still have 2 katana and 4 wakizashi still, but will be selling some probably. I had bought some to get mounted as a daisho, but that is way too expensive now that I am married with kids and stuff! I had one that was dated 1394, but stupidly sold that one off a while back. The new owner was able to examine the nakago (tang) and was able to get it deciphered to see the date and stuff. He sent it for a re polish and someone stole it before it was delivered to the polisher
They forge down the chunks into a flat billet and break it up. The chunks have impurities in them, so the first flattening gets a lot of that out and solidifies the chunk, which is a bit porous. They break it up to help redistribute the steel more evenly to make it more homogeneous and keep folding and forging the steel down to remove the impurities and make it a cleaner billet.
They use straw and ash to coat the billet and then apply a mud slurry? The slurry is ash and stone dust IIRC with water to make a mud to kinda seal over the billet. I believe this is to keep the carbon from burning out in scale/decarb? I have a book from Japan I gotta find; I think they discuss it in the book a bit.
I was big into Japanese swords several years ago and have a bunch of books and stuff. I still have 2 katana and 4 wakizashi still, but will be selling some probably. I had bought some to get mounted as a daisho, but that is way too expensive now that I am married with kids and stuff! I had one that was dated 1394, but stupidly sold that one off a while back. The new owner was able to examine the nakago (tang) and was able to get it deciphered to see the date and stuff. He sent it for a re polish and someone stole it before it was delivered to the polisher
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Yeah, 1095 or 26C3 or W2, wrapped around 1045 core, forge it out, do a Hamon on it, grind on a belt sander, Micarta handle, call it good! LOL, but it won't look as beautiful!! It's really cool to see the grain of the steel! One of the blades I have you can actually see different shades/colors to the metal and see the grain pattern. Some steel looks more silver, some looks more black and other parts look bluish.
That's an interesting video - I think the Japanese swords are some of the most amazing things going. The steps they go thru to make it from iron ore, and a special iron ore. Anyway, he's the video on YouTube so it's a bit easier to watch for folks like who don't fool with FB very much.
Here's a longer video "The Last Master Swordsmiths in Japan" on YT:
I do have a question here, this video mentions 3 things that mark the Katana, one being it doesn't bend. I thought I had read one of the first things a Samurai learned was how to straighten a bent sword since the Katana had a hard core with soft cladding.
Taz, you seem to be our resident expert - can you comment please? AND other folks also.
Here's a longer video "The Last Master Swordsmiths in Japan" on YT:
I do have a question here, this video mentions 3 things that mark the Katana, one being it doesn't bend. I thought I had read one of the first things a Samurai learned was how to straighten a bent sword since the Katana had a hard core with soft cladding.
Taz, you seem to be our resident expert - can you comment please? AND other folks also.
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They can bend easily!! Cutting poorly can easily result in a badly bent blade. Tameshigiri ruins a lot of blades and people recommend not using a valuable historical antique blade for doing tameshigiri because it can greatly devalue it, plus need more polishing and restoration. You need to have clean technique to not torque the blade in the cut when you meet resistance. Spine and edge have to be in the same plane before contacting the target, during contact with the target and after clearing the target.
Tons of myths and rumors about Japanese blades, including that they never break, never bend, cut through machine gun barrels, cut a floating flower stem in the river, drop silk on it and it cuts with no movement, cuts through trees, etc. They are very strong, but can be damaged just like any other sword. They can be extremely tough due to the different steels ie hard and soft steel just like if you blue back a knife blade.
Different periods of Japanese used different styles of swords, too. Some periods favored longer, more curved blades, others wanted shorter, straighter blades. Some were more ornate, others were simpler. During periods of frequent war, the blades werent as beautiful (active hamons and interesting hada patterns) , bit may have been stronger since they were built for war, not show and had to be made quickly.
Tons of myths and rumors about Japanese blades, including that they never break, never bend, cut through machine gun barrels, cut a floating flower stem in the river, drop silk on it and it cuts with no movement, cuts through trees, etc. They are very strong, but can be damaged just like any other sword. They can be extremely tough due to the different steels ie hard and soft steel just like if you blue back a knife blade.
Different periods of Japanese used different styles of swords, too. Some periods favored longer, more curved blades, others wanted shorter, straighter blades. Some were more ornate, others were simpler. During periods of frequent war, the blades werent as beautiful (active hamons and interesting hada patterns) , bit may have been stronger since they were built for war, not show and had to be made quickly.
Sean Jones
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the additional information Taz. I know next to nothing about traditional Japanese swords. Though I'd like to learn more.