My first knife

soule

Member
Okay, this is my very first knife. I know that I have a LOT to learn, but I don't think it is too bad for a first attempt (That is what I keep telling myself at least).


  • Steel: cpm 154 hardened at 1950 degrees and cryo treated in a dry ice and kerosene slurry before tempering twice at 425 degrees for two hours.
  • Scales: Green and black micarta.
  • design: inspired by a SOG I saw who's name I don't know.
  • Tools: side grinder, 4 inch belt sander, files, and lots of sand paper.

I made a lot of mistakes along the way but I was determined to not scrap it, so I finished it as best I could. I totally caught the bug and plan to develop my skills over who knows how many years and make many more, including folders eventually.

comments are welcome.
 

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Looks interesting. Shows overall good craftsmanship; I'd be pleased to turn out something like that myself. Now you need to test it, not necessarily to destruction but at least see how well it slices and chops and still retain an edge.

Doug
 
Hi

Good work, the knife has a great shape. I agree with Doug. Use the heck out of it.

What did you use to heat treat? I'd like to make some coffin handled Bowie knives in the distant future and don't intend to buy a nice big oven from Jantz for the first 4-5. (even though they ARE 50 miles away).

Later
 
Nice work! You avoided many mistakes that many first knives possess. I especially like the bevel hight and the shape of the edge profile.
 
Thanks!
So far it cuts well and seems to hold an edge very well. I knew it would be hard to sharpen from what I have read about this steel, but I was not really prepared for this. I also suspect that the edge will chip a bit in chopping tests and am hesitant to go there with my first knife, though after the glow wears off I will probably see what it can do anyways.

As for heat treating, I managed to save enough money to get my hands on an even heat KH 418. The 418 seems to be the perfect size for just about anything that I will be making in the near future.
 
I went back to your first post and saw that you didn't have an HRc reading on the steel. CMP154 has a good reputation and rates well on toughness compared to other stainless steels. I have a pocket knife by Benchmade and it handles a lot of cutting between sharpening but seems to sharpen well on regular stones. If you do something like chop on a 2X4 and it chippes on you I'd say that you 1) chose the wrong steel (even though I'm a carbon steel man I'd have a hard time believing that) or 2) you didn't temper it enough, though 425° should put you in a little under HRc 60 according to the data sheet. Anyway, it's information that you need to know. I just wouldn't do any flexing test on it unless you are comfortable with breaking the blade.

Doug
 
Thanks Doug,
I really need to invest in a way to measure HRc. I suspect that my sharpening skills need work, which is probably the real issue here. I eventually did get this thing sharp enough to shave my arm and promptly went out and smacked a 2x4 (Pine) a few times with it. I did not see or feel any chipping after I was done and it was still very sharp.

So far I really like CPM154 and plan to make some smaller knifes with what I have left. Practice practice practice!

When I get better I want to move onto Kitchen knifes. So far I have replaced the scales on my current knifes with G10, but that was just a stop-gap until I can make better ones.
 
Very well done! CPM154 is great steel. When you are ready to do kitchen knives, AEB-L is also great and costs a lot less. I cannot tell any difference between my kitchen knives in CPM154 and AEB-L (both at Rc61).
 
Any way that you look at it any machine to test HRc is going to run into big bucks and you will need somewhere clean, dry, and with a consistent temperature to set it up in. (Down in the basement between the washer and dryer and the kitty littler box ain't it so that kind of leaves me out) For many of us performance is the best that we can do.

Doug
 
Wow! I just looked into this and that much money would go a long way toward a real belt grinder to replace my $100, broke down, under powered, 4x36 belt sander. Am I correct in assuming that those files that i saw to test hardness are a next to useless also?
When you mention performance testing... Is that combined with careful notes on heat treating for each specific steel? How much variance can I expect with the same steel and a computer controlled kiln like one of the EvenHeat kilns using the same recipe each time?
By the way, thank you for all the feedback. I have big goals of becoming a very competent knife maker in time with lots of practice.
 
Don't overlook sending blades out for heat treat. Peters Heat Treat will do it right, every time...and they will test the hardness.

If you had $1500 bucks to spend on your knife shop, what would you do with it? My suggestion is to invest that money into tools that make you money first. The market dictates your sale price. Your costs in time and materials determines your profit margin. So your time and materials per knife = money earned or money lost. A good grinder makes money. A bandsaw makes money. A horizontal disc makes money. These tools make knives and they allow you to be efficient. Does doing your own heat treating make you money? Maybe, maybe not.

I do plan to do my own heat treating eventually, and by eventually I mean when I have all the other equipment that makes money first. I can send 20 blades to Peters at a time for about $120. When you add shipping both ways, that comes to $150. $150/20 knives = $7.50 per knife. $7.50 gets heat treating, straightening if required, and cryogenic treating.

I do about 60 knives per year. 60 x $7.50 = $450 per year. That's what my heat treating costs per year.

How much does a heat treat oven cost? How much does the power to run it add to your cost? Cryo treatment?
 
John, you make a very good point.
The problem is that I am a total nerd and am not doing this for money, at least not now. For me it is all about the science and art. Who knows, when I get good enough to sell what I make with a clear conscience my thinking might change, I just don't know right now.

I can conceivably do 5 knives at a time with my little oven with a couple extra hands. Dry Ice is about $1.29 a pound. kerosene is what $5 a gallon and that can be reused. Then of course there is the cost of the stainless foil needed. Power to run the oven for a full harden/temper cycle I have not figured, but my guess is a couple of dollars. I would bet that what I am doing is close to the same cost per knife, perhaps a little more, but no good way to test hardness. I seriously see the advantages of outsourcing to a trusted service and I will probably do that when and if I decide to move this from a hobby to a business, or at the very least a way to pay for supplies if you know what I mean.

I really enjoy hearing different points of view and take them seriously, so keep them coming please.

/Jeff
 
I totally get what you're saying, and I respect that you want to do it yourself and be no nerdily empirical. (Ha!)

All I'm saying is if you already have a heat treat oven, then cool. By all means. But if you don't yet have a good grinder I wouldn't use the dough for an oven. Just my opinion.

The great, as in SERIOUSLY GREAT, aspect of this knife making hobby is that it not insanely difficult to to make knives good enough to sell. By knife #10 most people are turning out good stuff. Selling knives pays for more stuff. Any hobby that pays for itself (i.e. buys your new tools for you... wink wink) is light years ahead of suffering financially for your art. However, to ever make knives repeatably and semi-efficiently, good tools just don't have any substitute. Sure, you can make a gorgeous knife with files. All two of them a year.

Whatever path you choose, best of luck to you! That's the great thing about being a hobby knife maker- you are the only person you have to please. That's an awesome feeling.
 
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Yes, you assume right. The calibrated files leave a lot to be desired. There are other ways to test hardness. There are two brass rod tests. One is to deflecting the edge over a brass rod and seeing if it goes back straight without chipping. The other, which I use, is to drive the blade through something like a 1/16" brass rod with a mallet and then checking the edge. There should be no more that just the slightest dulling of the edge. If there is an indentation with curled, torn edges it would indicate that the blade is too soft and needs to have the indentation ground out and re-heat treated with a slightly lower tempering temperature. If the indentation looks like it has brittle edges then the blade is too hard then you can grind the indentation out and re-temper the blade without re-hardening it just a little hotter. In either case I would change the tempering temperatures only by 25° or so until I got the edge where I wanted it. Regardless, the ultimate test is going to be how well the blade stands up in use.

Another thing about hardness testers is that there is an art to using them. You can have two people test the same piece of steel on the same instrument and come up with slightly different results. Some steels also present problems. I know that you are using a deep hardening stainless steel but if you ever decided to try a shallow hardening carbon steel you might not be able to directly measure the the hardness of the blade because the ricasso area on the blade could be too thick for the steel to harden. The design of the blade also effects the results from a hardness tester. Hardness has to be measured on parallel surfaces. I would also stay away from the used units that you can find for sale on places like Ebay. The reason that they are for sale may be that they are so old that the factory will not support the instrument and you may end up having problems getting it serviced if needed. Be ware of the statement "all sales are final" you may end up paying an arm and a leg getting it put back in working order and some are only worth taking apart for parts.

As I said, I really don't have a place to put a hardness tester but if I would have to choose between one and a grinder, I would go with the grinder.

Doug
 
Doug that is some great information, thanks! I am most definately saving my money for a good grinder. Almost there actually. I am a total tool slut. I tend to spend more on better tools when I can because they are generally less expensive in the end. This comes from one of my previous vocations as a mechanic. The Snapon dealers loved me.
 
Thank God there's no USA Knifemaker truck that shows up out of the blue with a nifty payment plan! I'd be sitting on a bucket with a guitar singing "I went down to the crossroads..."
 
I would really be in trouble if there was such a truck as well. Lol
That is a unique shape of a knife for sure. Its the first one you made also it is quite an accomplishment.
 
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