My forge build.....WIP......it's going to take a while!

Joe, sorry things just didn't work out with building the forge. I'm thinking you were so close to having a GREAT forge, but do agree it might well be too much forge for using in a small type garage with 8ft ceiling. That's a really nice blacksmithing forge you've got coming there. Do you plan much blacksmithing to go along with the bladesmithing? Looks like it won't be hard to rig up a bit of angle iron in front 'n rear to hold a firebrick to partially close off the ends.

I really like his Graham blower forge (and Atlas Forge) design to give the swirl action. For blacksmithing the flame coming down directly on metal isn't a problem, and for blade work you can keep the billet moving so the hotspot isn't so bad.

I ordered a small DC blower similar to the Graham blower and used a DC voltage (speed) controller I had and it really works good on the small forge I've got. It would give more adjustable range than the venturi burner I've got, but either blower or venturi works really good. If my small forge burner had been oriented correctly rather than downwards I doubt I'd ever build a new forge.

You gonna enjoy the new forge -
 
C. Killgore said:
Whatever gets you forging! Not an ideal design for blades since the burners are pointing straight at your work but it will do the job.

I understand your concern. It was hard to advise further when I’m not there standing in front of the thing.

Most people in the safety line of business think we’re nuts. You should have seen the look on the face of the propane guy when I showed him what I intended to run on the 500 gallon tank he was installing. I had to fight with him and read the fire codes myself before he agreed to hook it up. The downside to renting a tank... they have more say in what you can hook the thing up to. Lots of savings on propane and now I have a heated shop as well tho. Only about $10/mo rent.
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Thanks Killgore!

I realize it's not ideal! I'll make do until I can do something better. I've actually been halfheartedly looking at some different properties much to my daughter's concern. I think she's more worried about me pissing away her inheritance! Though truly I hate the thought of moving, well not the thought, but the effort required.
 
Daughter needs to realize it's not "HER" inheritance, but YOUR money. {grinning - I'm sure she's joking). I used to tell Mom 'n Dad to buy something, or take a trip - it wouldn't cost them a penny since they would only be spending money that would go to us kids. My daughter tells me much the same thing.

I know what you mean about the effort required to move. That idea scares me big time. I was pretty happy here, had my shooting range setup out back, could only shoot 50 yds easy, but that's ok. Then they opened a sub-division just across my fence and put that inside city limits.

Good luck Joe -
 
KenH said:
Joe, sorry things just didn't work out with building the forge. I'm thinking you were so close to having a GREAT forge, but do agree it might well be too much forge for using in a small type garage with 8ft ceiling. That's a really nice blacksmithing forge you've got coming there. Do you plan much blacksmithing to go along with the bladesmithing? Looks like it won't be hard to rig up a bit of angle iron in front 'n rear to hold a firebrick to partially close off the ends.

I really like his Graham blower forge (and Atlas Forge) design to give the swirl action. For blacksmithing the flame coming down directly on metal isn't a problem, and for blade work you can keep the billet moving so the hotspot isn't so bad.

I ordered a small DC blower similar to the Graham blower and used a DC voltage (speed) controller I had and it really works good on the small forge I've got. It would give more adjustable range than the venturi burner I've got, but either blower or venturi works really good. If my small forge burner had been oriented correctly rather than downwards I doubt I'd ever build a new forge.

You gonna enjoy the new forge -
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No, no Ken please don't apologize, I had a lot of fun and think I learned a bit, I'm not one to cry in my beer for more than a night or so! {g} And I think we probably did build a great forge and was very close to completion, maybe just too much for my indoor shop.

If the new forge lets me actually forge weld I'll be a happy man. I really would like to make canisters and pattern welded steel. Forging actual blades maybe, san mai I would like to try as well. But I definitely think if you 'just' want to make blades I have to agree with Kevin Cashen, you might just be better off with 'cut and grind'. But I also want to try my hand at making some hammers. But general blacksmithing has it's appeal for me as well.

I too like the Graham forge and talked to him about it a bit. I was thinking to get both the blower and the venturi burner so I could go either way as needed. But he was definitely not recommending the venturi blower on the Graham. And I'm sure I'll be doing some mods to the new forge, I just can't resist!

I think maybe a smaller blower would be the way to go, especially for me! And I do still have that little Dayton 54 CFM blower, who knows what the future holds.

Thanks Ken for all your help!
 
Did he happen to mention why he didn't like the idea of a venturi burner on the Graham? The venturi is of two sizes, 100K and 30K BTU and the Graham is 100K BTU also. Maybe the design of Graham doesn't allow a venturi to work as it should?

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but I've surely enjoyed following along on the build and have learned some things myself.
 
KenH said:
Daughter needs to realize it's not "HER" inheritance, but YOUR money. {grinning - I'm sure she's joking). I used to tell Mom 'n Dad to buy something, or take a trip - it wouldn't cost them a penny since they would only be spending money that would go to us kids. My daughter tells me much the same thing.

I know what you mean about the effort required to move. That idea scares me big time. I was pretty happy here, had my shooting range setup out back, could only shoot 50 yds easy, but that's ok. Then they opened a sub-division just across my fence and put that inside city limits.

Good luck Joe -
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Yeah, she's actually a good kid and a only child, another whole story behind that but I told her a long time ago that when I'm dead and gone if she finds more than $20 in my pockets then I just failed to plan properly! ;)

Reminds me of my father when he was getting close. I was never the 'favorite' child but perhaps the most reluctantly respected. (Hard headed, hence my screen name!) It came up once and I had told him ever wanted to leave me anything that he should do it before he died as I wouldn't be in the thick of things squabbling for the leavings. (I have 8 other siblings) He asked me what I wanted. I told him and I received on the spot some towels leftover from when he used to drive a linen service route, on which I had rode with him as a kid and every time I smell those towels it's Dad all over again! Worked out well I guess. He died with $80,000 in unsecured debt. Not how I want to go out.

Moving is sooo tempting, just don't think I have the energy for it. I would absolutely love to have a nice rifle range. I'm sorry you are losing yours. I absolutely love reloading for precision shooting, all the trial and error, chronographing and retesting. I've done it quite a bit but anymore the range is at minimum over an hour away. Back in the day it was 30 minutes and it worked then, not so much anymore.
 
KenH said:
Did he happen to mention why he didn't like the idea of a venturi burner on the Graham? The venturi is of two sizes, 100K and 30K BTU and the Graham is 100K BTU also. Maybe the design of Graham doesn't allow a venturi to work as it should?

I'm sorry it didn't work out, but I've surely enjoyed following along on the build and have learned some things myself.
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Well he didn't go into great detail, but he said it could be very difficult to make the venturi work with the Graham though he said it could be done. Sounds like you take your chances.

Again please don't be sorry, it was great fun and I think I learned a lot, and learning is not necessarily cheap or easy.
 
KenH said:
My hero!! {g}
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Ha ha, pretty sure that was why I was never the favorite child, couldn't stand owing anybody anything! $80,000 in unsecured debt and his credit rating was probably crap! At this stage in the game I could do a lot of damage!
 
Here's a picture to share.

electrical2.jpg


You've seen the bowed lights before but if I backed up a bit you can see that heavy blue cable (220 volt which powers my hydraulic press) it and the 110 v light plug off to the left, both of those cables were surprisingly soft and melty feeling when I checked them after the last firing. Just glad I didn't go further.
 
Ok, I got the little Atlas forge and it is a really nice well made forge. I tested it out and found that I'm still getting temperatures near the ceiling of 200 F. And I'm a bit concerned by that.

So after a lot of thought I've decided to build an integral hood in my forge. Below you can see the very first stages of that build.



The top angle iron represents the upper angles of the integral hood. The lower flat bar is where the sides of the hood will tie in. I have no idea what I'm doing, hopefully just doing massive overkill!

I have a 9" x 6" squirrel cage coming that I will mate to a 3/4 HP motor which I will need to build a blower cage for. It will have an 8" diameter inlet matching the 8" diameter outlet on the integral hood. The plan is to properly exit all the exhaust gases and heat from my shop before they have a chance to build up heat on the ceiling.

Hopefully this will work, otherwise I have no idea of the next step.....
 
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Joe, you're doing a lot of welding with that cart you're building for the new forge and hood. Without something to move the heat out of the hood you're building over the forge it's gonna get HOT around that forge. Perhaps a vent duct running horizontal with an exhaust fan blowing the heat out of garage thru that garage door I see in background?

Would it be possible to move the forge over close to an open garage door with a fan to blow heat out? OR, do you need to keep garage door closed due to noise abatement?
 
Even with the door open and multiple fans running as well as a squirrel cage exhaust fan the (8 ft) ceiling heat is too much for my comfort level. I just have too much electrical on the ceiling.

Yes I will be venting the built up heat in the hood to the outside, hence the new motor and squirrel cage. Hopefully I can move enough air.

The plan..... o_O


Forgive the crude drawing and note that nothing is too scale. Though the squirrel cage is (almost) 10"x6" instead of 9"x6".

The hardest part will be building the squirrel cage enclosure. I have no idea how to calculate the CFM this system should produce. But it's based loosely on other blowers I've seen on the internet and I think it should produce something between 1300 and 2000 CFM? Something like this one at McMaster Carr. The new motor is 1750 RPM and the squirrel cage is rated for 1750 RPM as well.

I generally keep the garage door partially shut when I run the forge. If the fine residents of my community look in my garage and see a massive fire ball the fire department will definitely be on it's way shortly thereafter. The door does help keep the noise down though I have received almost zero noise complaints. It also stops a lot of people just poking their heads in to see what's going on!
 
jaxxas said:
Even with the door open and multiple fans running as well as a squirrel cage exhaust fan the (8 ft) ceiling heat is too much for my comfort level. I just have too much electrical on the ceiling.

Yes I will be venting the built up heat in the hood to the outside, hence the new motor and squirrel cage. Hopefully I can move enough air.

The plan..... o_O


Forgive the crude drawing and note that nothing is too scale. Though the squirrel cage is (almost) 10"x6" instead of 9"x6".

The hardest part will be building the squirrel cage enclosure. I have no idea how to calculate the CFM this system should produce. But it's based loosely on other blowers I've seen on the internet and I think it should produce something between 1300 and 2000 CFM? Something like this one at McMaster Carr. The new motor is 1750 RPM and the squirrel cage is rated for 1750 RPM as well.

I generally keep the garage door partially shut when I run the forge. If the fine residents of my community look in my garage and see a massive fire ball the fire department will definitely be on it's way shortly thereafter. The door does help keep the noise down though I have received almost zero noise complaints. It also stops a lot of people just poking their heads in to see what's going on!
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They are all potential customers. Do your forging outside and groom them. And the fire dept.! It would save you so much work, too!
 
I fully understand the desire to keep noise down in a HOA environment. I lived in one for 3 yrs or so (my wife lived there when we first met) and they wish to control everything, even the color & design of front door! Best to keep them as unaware of what you're doing as possible, until you can move. I don't like HOAs - they lower property values too much.

Now to the important stuff - I like your plan. With a blower like that pulling from the hood over forge I'll bet the ceiling temp will stay in a reasonable zone. My first thought was to put the duct thru the garage door, but easily moved for opening when needed. I think your design will work just fine.
 
Thanks Guys!

Bruce I can't even change the spark plugs in the driveway, let alone forge!

Thanks, and I agree Ken, the less they know the better off I am!

I didn't get a bunch done today. Some of the framework for the exhaust hood, still a ways to go. Three more front pieces, pull it all out and weld up the bottom side then grind the top side for a smooth surface for the sheet metal mounting. Then I can sheet it with 16 gauge. I think if needed I could flash below the vent hood sides with aluminum flashing to increase the air flow from the front and rear of the forge.




I also received the motor and the squirrel cage today, it'll be a bit before I get to that.



The farm duty motor was like $50 ($144) less than the 'regular' motor! The squirrel cage was $72.

I had bought 2 of these flanges earlier and the one that will mount on the hood is soaking in vinegar currently to get rid of the zinc. Not sure how far back from the hood I have to worry about the fumes coming off the ducting but I'll be checking it out.
 
I agree I'd have (I did have) a hard time living in a HOA - I like where I am, while I don't shoot off the deck, I do shoot from back yard so it's not so noisy in the house. Sad to say the city limits have recently moved and now border my property line on the back side, about 500 ft from house. Not sure how that's going to work, so far nobody's said anything, but once houses are built and folks moved in it might be different.

Joe, I think you've got a good working plan. Can't see why it won't work. Steve hit the nail on the head with the need for a CO detector, and I do agree with the idea of at least 2 CO detectors in that small space.
 
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