My Sharpening Setup
- Thread starter MadRookie
- Start date
HHH Knives
Super Moderator
That looks like one heck on a set up. Edge pro is a great sharpening aid.
Diamond G Knives
Well-Known Member
Rookie
Great collection of stones and hones!
Could you explaine a bit how and in what progression you use these? Also Why do yo like the edge pro? Ive looked at them but never tried them. Im wanting to get into the high end Japanese style Chef knives, but am concerned about the sharpening angles. Any input?
Thanks and God Bless
Mike
Great collection of stones and hones!
Could you explaine a bit how and in what progression you use these? Also Why do yo like the edge pro? Ive looked at them but never tried them. Im wanting to get into the high end Japanese style Chef knives, but am concerned about the sharpening angles. Any input?
Thanks and God Bless
Mike
MadRookie
Active Member
Mike:
There are many decent guided sharpening systems out there, the WEPS, one of which jumps to mind.( http://www.wickededgeusa.com/ ).
I used a Lansky & Gatco system for many years, with very good results, until I could convince myself to splurge the bucks on an EP - I never looked back!
The EP comes in two models, the smaller Apex, and the Pro model.
The difference between the two is size, functionality, precision & build quality.
My preference for the EP stems from the consistent, exact, crisp, clearly defined precision edge it delivers with ease.
I am more into high end Japanese knives than other knives - the EP excels in sharpening them - any steel you throw at it.
As for progression......well that is an entirely different ball game, and is hugely individualistic dependent upon how anal you are about your edge.
I am rather far off the "anal" scale and am deemed by others in need of serious mental guidance here.
I lap my stones after each use & check them with a dial caliper to ensure that they are flat and true. (uniform thickness throughout)
I use an angle cube for precise edge contact.
I inspect my progression with an electron microscope.
Firstly let me say that the stock stones that come with the EP do a great job, but wow, the aftermarket Chosera & Shaptons are simply unbelievable ( http://www.jendeindustries.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SHAP&Store_Code=JENDE )
I have the full Chosera grit range, + additional stones like 8k Snow White, 15k & 30k Shaptons in 1x6 inch flavor.
For low end grinding I use the 2x6 DMT EP mounted plates.
Then I have various stropping compound s up to 0.1 micron Poly diamond spray - freehand and/or EP mounted balsa/leather.
Back to progression....
I normally grind a relief (back bevel) on all my kitchen knives, with a micro cutting bevel of typical 4 to 5 degrees more obtuse to add strength & durability.
My typical Gyuto would look like this: 9/13, meaning 9 degrees back bevel with 13 degrees micro bevel cutting edge.
This makes touching up the edge on a strop a breeze.
For the relief bevel, I use the full Chosera stone progression up to 10k, then finish with the 15K & 30k Shaptons for that ultra mirror finish.
The cutting edge grit is determined by the use/application of the particular knife.
My general Gyuto's are finished at a nice toothy 2k & my protein slicers at 30k + ......
Then I keep one or two knives with bragging rights, off the chart super duper edges, which can split hair etc...
Yeah I know....can someone please point me in the right direction for some serious rehab....
Hope this helps - shout if you need more info...
Here are some pics....
There are many decent guided sharpening systems out there, the WEPS, one of which jumps to mind.( http://www.wickededgeusa.com/ ).
I used a Lansky & Gatco system for many years, with very good results, until I could convince myself to splurge the bucks on an EP - I never looked back!
The EP comes in two models, the smaller Apex, and the Pro model.
The difference between the two is size, functionality, precision & build quality.
My preference for the EP stems from the consistent, exact, crisp, clearly defined precision edge it delivers with ease.
I am more into high end Japanese knives than other knives - the EP excels in sharpening them - any steel you throw at it.
As for progression......well that is an entirely different ball game, and is hugely individualistic dependent upon how anal you are about your edge.
I am rather far off the "anal" scale and am deemed by others in need of serious mental guidance here.
I lap my stones after each use & check them with a dial caliper to ensure that they are flat and true. (uniform thickness throughout)
I use an angle cube for precise edge contact.
I inspect my progression with an electron microscope.
Firstly let me say that the stock stones that come with the EP do a great job, but wow, the aftermarket Chosera & Shaptons are simply unbelievable ( http://www.jendeindustries.com/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=SHAP&Store_Code=JENDE )
I have the full Chosera grit range, + additional stones like 8k Snow White, 15k & 30k Shaptons in 1x6 inch flavor.
For low end grinding I use the 2x6 DMT EP mounted plates.
Then I have various stropping compound s up to 0.1 micron Poly diamond spray - freehand and/or EP mounted balsa/leather.
Back to progression....
I normally grind a relief (back bevel) on all my kitchen knives, with a micro cutting bevel of typical 4 to 5 degrees more obtuse to add strength & durability.
My typical Gyuto would look like this: 9/13, meaning 9 degrees back bevel with 13 degrees micro bevel cutting edge.
This makes touching up the edge on a strop a breeze.
For the relief bevel, I use the full Chosera stone progression up to 10k, then finish with the 15K & 30k Shaptons for that ultra mirror finish.
The cutting edge grit is determined by the use/application of the particular knife.
My general Gyuto's are finished at a nice toothy 2k & my protein slicers at 30k + ......
Then I keep one or two knives with bragging rights, off the chart super duper edges, which can split hair etc...
Yeah I know....can someone please point me in the right direction for some serious rehab....
Hope this helps - shout if you need more info...
Here are some pics....
Diamond G Knives
Well-Known Member
Thanks Rookie, that makes it very easy to understand. How much more durable do you feel the edge is by using the compound edge such as the 9/13 you suggest? Also would the 9 deg bevel be polished to the same grit/micron as the 13 deg micro bevel?
In your opinion what kind of $$ would one be looking at to set up to sharpen Western knives to a professional edge as well as Japanese Style knives?
I am very confidant in my ability to sharpen with a 1x30 and have been for years. But this takes things to a whole diffrent level! Plus I want to send my chefs knives out with a repeatable edge for my customer.
Thanks Again,
God Bless
Mike
In your opinion what kind of $$ would one be looking at to set up to sharpen Western knives to a professional edge as well as Japanese Style knives?
I am very confidant in my ability to sharpen with a 1x30 and have been for years. But this takes things to a whole diffrent level! Plus I want to send my chefs knives out with a repeatable edge for my customer.
Thanks Again,
God Bless
Mike
MadRookie
Active Member
Mike:
The dual bevel(relief + cutting micro bevel) gives a much better cutting experience than just a 13 degree edge on its own - albeit where the single 13 degree edge would generally last longer, but also take longer to sharpen than the much smaller 13 degree micro bevel.
It is very easy to maintain the micro bevel just by stropping, resulting that you have to visit the stones less often.
Define a "professional edge"....??
I would reckon that any edge that can perform correctly for the knife & task in hand, should be good.
I know chefs that finish all there knives with a 1k edge, and they cut like crazy!
Remember that the actual QUALITY of the grit finish plays a HUGE roll in the finished edge.
My 2k edges can top hairs, push cut paper, but most importantly, do what is required of them in real world cutting.
IMHO there is no real difference between Western & Japanese knives other than the Rockwell hardness & actual steel composition - for sharpening either, the same principles apply - you grind away metal until 2 planes meet to form a sharp cutting edge.
Stainless & carbon steels react differently to various types of stones, but that is a story for another day.
I do not sharpen for money, so it would be hard for me to hazard a guess as to cost.
What I can say is that most "pro" sharpeners use mechanized belts as this is fast & gives a very decent edge as well.
Using something like the EP is rather time consuming, which would require higher sharpening fees.... it is more like customized edges.....if I may put it that way?
Here are some vids of how I do it:
[video=youtube;x1mSRNJyX-8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mSRNJyX-8[/video]
[video=youtube;WDsFi5os1LI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDsFi5os1LI[/video]
The dual bevel(relief + cutting micro bevel) gives a much better cutting experience than just a 13 degree edge on its own - albeit where the single 13 degree edge would generally last longer, but also take longer to sharpen than the much smaller 13 degree micro bevel.
It is very easy to maintain the micro bevel just by stropping, resulting that you have to visit the stones less often.
Define a "professional edge"....??
I would reckon that any edge that can perform correctly for the knife & task in hand, should be good.
I know chefs that finish all there knives with a 1k edge, and they cut like crazy!
Remember that the actual QUALITY of the grit finish plays a HUGE roll in the finished edge.
My 2k edges can top hairs, push cut paper, but most importantly, do what is required of them in real world cutting.
IMHO there is no real difference between Western & Japanese knives other than the Rockwell hardness & actual steel composition - for sharpening either, the same principles apply - you grind away metal until 2 planes meet to form a sharp cutting edge.
Stainless & carbon steels react differently to various types of stones, but that is a story for another day.
I do not sharpen for money, so it would be hard for me to hazard a guess as to cost.
What I can say is that most "pro" sharpeners use mechanized belts as this is fast & gives a very decent edge as well.
Using something like the EP is rather time consuming, which would require higher sharpening fees.... it is more like customized edges.....if I may put it that way?
Here are some vids of how I do it:
[video=youtube;x1mSRNJyX-8]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x1mSRNJyX-8[/video]
[video=youtube;WDsFi5os1LI]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDsFi5os1LI[/video]
Diamond G Knives
Well-Known Member
Rookie
Thank you for the explination as well as the videos. This makes perfect sense to me know.
When I refered to a "professional" edge, I was speaking of what angle was customary in professional kitchen knives. I know in my shop, I sharpen on belts, and while I can get a knife very sharp, Im using power equipment while a person in a kitchen may not have that option. I would like my knives to go to my customer with as close to an angle they would want so that thety do not have to reprofile with stones to suit their taste. It seems this would be a conversation to have with the customer prior to initial sharpening.
Thaks again for going to all the trouble to explaine this!
God Bless
Mike
Thank you for the explination as well as the videos. This makes perfect sense to me know.
When I refered to a "professional" edge, I was speaking of what angle was customary in professional kitchen knives. I know in my shop, I sharpen on belts, and while I can get a knife very sharp, Im using power equipment while a person in a kitchen may not have that option. I would like my knives to go to my customer with as close to an angle they would want so that thety do not have to reprofile with stones to suit their taste. It seems this would be a conversation to have with the customer prior to initial sharpening.
Thaks again for going to all the trouble to explaine this!
God Bless
Mike
HELLGAP
Dealer - Purveyor
I know exactly what your saying since I have begun making straight razors over a year ago nearly 2 and I have bought alot of sharpening stones .I only have one stone in the 14 k but several nagura that will do the trick. For the most part though knives can be sharpened on a 2x72 and stroped to a hair popping sharpness. People like yourself take alot of satisfaction from hand sharpening. Nice collection , I recently bought a 30 inch cordovan strop it really puts a nice polish on an edge. Kellyw
Diamond G Knives
Well-Known Member
Rookie
I was wanting to make up some strop blocks, will have a metal backing and held onto a base magneticly. what is the best type of leather? I was thinking shoe sole leather since it has been compressed and would be more uniform, as well as being rouoghened to hold the compound. Any suggestions?
Was planning on starting with the standard buffing compounds (dont know the grits yet) Black, green, white. ANy suggestions?
Thanks and God Bless
Mike
I was wanting to make up some strop blocks, will have a metal backing and held onto a base magneticly. what is the best type of leather? I was thinking shoe sole leather since it has been compressed and would be more uniform, as well as being rouoghened to hold the compound. Any suggestions?
Was planning on starting with the standard buffing compounds (dont know the grits yet) Black, green, white. ANy suggestions?
Thanks and God Bless
Mike
MadRookie
Active Member
Hi Mike:
I prefer the split horse hide leather & when very thin has little give to excessively round the edge.
There are many different compounds available - personally I prefer poly diamond spray as it cuts quickly & leaves a slightly toothy finish.
I use 0.25 & 0.1 micron poly diamond, see here:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kenscorner.html
I make my own strops, as I like them a bit longer and wider - 16 x 3.6 inches.
But look at the Hand American Hone base here - also a very good system with various magnetic backed options for stropping substrates.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shac.html
However, as a parting shot, your edge should be finished according to the type of application/use.
Shout if you need more info.
I prefer the split horse hide leather & when very thin has little give to excessively round the edge.
There are many different compounds available - personally I prefer poly diamond spray as it cuts quickly & leaves a slightly toothy finish.
I use 0.25 & 0.1 micron poly diamond, see here:
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/kenscorner.html
I make my own strops, as I like them a bit longer and wider - 16 x 3.6 inches.
But look at the Hand American Hone base here - also a very good system with various magnetic backed options for stropping substrates.
http://www.chefknivestogo.com/shac.html
However, as a parting shot, your edge should be finished according to the type of application/use.
Shout if you need more info.