Meridian Blades
Moderator - Knife Maker
Need a little info on this Japanese kitchen knife. What I know is its about 25yrs old, and about 16-17inches long, but thats about all I know. Here's some pics that might help. Thanks guys, I appreciate it.
Older Japanese kitchen knife - Info Needed
- Thread starter Meridian Blades
- Start date
Meridian Blades
Moderator - Knife Maker
Thanks Bubba....but it will be a few weeks before she gets here.
Larry
Larry
T
The Tourist
Guest
Well, it's a yanajiba sushi knife, but I cannot find the exact caligraphy icons in my stuff.
Yes, I'd suggest you have a pro look it over to make sure this isn't a fancy-schmancy fish knife from some famous shogun, though I doubt it.
I sell knives exactly like this for 50 to 200 bucks. If it is simply a 20 year old yanajiba, there's no reason not to have it sharpened and polished.
Do not use motorized equipment to sharpen or polish the blade! Not even cloth wheels. You cannot guess the number of knives I've had to repair after those famous last words, "Don't worry, I know what I'm doing..."
As you can see from the pictures, it's a chisel grind on one side, and a hollow-grind on the obverse. I use waterstones from three suppliers and two grades of paste on knives like this.
Yes, I'd suggest you have a pro look it over to make sure this isn't a fancy-schmancy fish knife from some famous shogun, though I doubt it.
I sell knives exactly like this for 50 to 200 bucks. If it is simply a 20 year old yanajiba, there's no reason not to have it sharpened and polished.
Do not use motorized equipment to sharpen or polish the blade! Not even cloth wheels. You cannot guess the number of knives I've had to repair after those famous last words, "Don't worry, I know what I'm doing..."
As you can see from the pictures, it's a chisel grind on one side, and a hollow-grind on the obverse. I use waterstones from three suppliers and two grades of paste on knives like this.
bubba-san
Well-Known Member
Larry I agree , If you polish the blade properly it will preserve the steel and enhance the value . Actually older japanese blades are one of the few antiques that if they are restored, increases thier value . Use some high quality stones to do work , namikawa heibei is a good place for a top quality stones although a little pricey . The blade seems to have most if not all of its original "meat" . Is the blade sanmai ? looks like line on edge ? cant tell. If you send blade to togishi It could cost 25 $ an inch to polish . I f you dont find someone ,I can do it a lot cheaper. Nice blade . Bubba
Meridian Blades
Moderator - Knife Maker
Bubba I appreciate all the info and help you've given me. I gotta say that the info on this blade has not been easy to get. Butch has really helped a lot too. Seems strange to me that this knife is made for a person who is right handed..... I just got a pretty nice Deba blade as well and a lot of what I thought I knew about these blades went right out the window. The Deba has a ton of weight in the spine, and is stamped "made in Japan", and feels like a serious chopper. The sushi blade is about 2/3rds translated by the Japanese Kitchen guys on KF. Heres a little excerpt from what they had to say...
Most Sakai knives follow the same pattern of characters, just like the engraving below (from this thread a few days ago - http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/876384/ )
The first character is usually 'Sakai' (堺), then the maker's name (in this case, Ichimonji Matsuhide), then the character for 'forged by' (造) at the end. I'm showing you this one in particular because it's a clear example with legible handwriting.
If you compare the 'forged by' character between the engraving above and the one on your knife, even if you can't read kanji you can probably tell that yours is much more stylized. I'm sure the first and third characters are the typical 'Sakai' and 'made by', but the stylization makes it really hard to decipher the second... the most important of course. Sorry, you'll probably need a native speaker who can recognize that character if you want to find out the maker.
So you guys are right about the first one being Sakai, but pretty far off about the last two Those two small ones are Oda, a common last name (yes, technically they say 'big field' but that's like looking at the word 'Livingstone' and thinking it means 'rock that is alive'). Probably whoever owned the knife got it engraved.
Heres a pic of the Deba blade.....Got some nicks and chips in the blade and tip, but the handle is a full 5.25 inches long and thick. Nothing dainty about it....
Most Sakai knives follow the same pattern of characters, just like the engraving below (from this thread a few days ago - http://www.knifeforums.com/forums/showtopic.php?tid/876384/ )
The first character is usually 'Sakai' (堺), then the maker's name (in this case, Ichimonji Matsuhide), then the character for 'forged by' (造) at the end. I'm showing you this one in particular because it's a clear example with legible handwriting.
If you compare the 'forged by' character between the engraving above and the one on your knife, even if you can't read kanji you can probably tell that yours is much more stylized. I'm sure the first and third characters are the typical 'Sakai' and 'made by', but the stylization makes it really hard to decipher the second... the most important of course. Sorry, you'll probably need a native speaker who can recognize that character if you want to find out the maker.
So you guys are right about the first one being Sakai, but pretty far off about the last two Those two small ones are Oda, a common last name (yes, technically they say 'big field' but that's like looking at the word 'Livingstone' and thinking it means 'rock that is alive'). Probably whoever owned the knife got it engraved.
Heres a pic of the Deba blade.....Got some nicks and chips in the blade and tip, but the handle is a full 5.25 inches long and thick. Nothing dainty about it....
bubba-san
Well-Known Member
Ichimonji was a swordmaking family , lots of makers use famous last names as their first . It was common . Funny I have a sword made by Kiko Ichimonji . He was mino province smith around 1870 . Blade was sent to war in the pacific. I picked it up in Japan when I was stationed there . I like collecting the Kitchen blades also I have a few of them . the older ones by good makers can get pricey . Its the maker that counts , although sometimes they carve maker and person blade was made for on tang or side of blade . Nice deba blade stamped or not . Have seen a few blades with so much dedication on sides that blade is covered !! I do know a fella on sword forum who is pretty good with the older script ? I can look him up ? thanks for the look see .
T
The Tourist
Guest
Bubba-san, in reading your last response you have demonstrated why I want to be a member of this forum.
Yes, many old-world Japanese cutlery families make swords and kitchen supplies, but I'm in awe of the entire craft. There are craftsmen who make the blanks, others who become the cutlers, and makers of the saya and then the polishers. And like most sharpeners, I am drawn to the knife makers here in this forum.
I certainly plan to follow this thread as the history and possible restoration of this knife unfolds.
Edit: As for any tang stamps or icons, I usually look into aa book called "The Samurai Sword, A Handbook," by John M. Yumoto. While I am not well versed in Japanese, there is an entire chapter on the caligraphy, the inscriptions, the meanings, etc.
Yes, many old-world Japanese cutlery families make swords and kitchen supplies, but I'm in awe of the entire craft. There are craftsmen who make the blanks, others who become the cutlers, and makers of the saya and then the polishers. And like most sharpeners, I am drawn to the knife makers here in this forum.
I certainly plan to follow this thread as the history and possible restoration of this knife unfolds.
Edit: As for any tang stamps or icons, I usually look into aa book called "The Samurai Sword, A Handbook," by John M. Yumoto. While I am not well versed in Japanese, there is an entire chapter on the caligraphy, the inscriptions, the meanings, etc.
Last edited by a moderator:
bubba-san
Well-Known Member
I agree T . I have been hooked since i bought my first japanese blade . Translating the mei ( signature ) is very difficult . I think the primary reason is the have several kinds of script . some in japanese and some in chinese mix .I belong to Jssus (Japanese sword society) and they have a good translator. Even the japanese dont understand all of it ! . Thats a nice book , it used to be online but, one of the sites is now closed ?? Here is a site for translating that may be helpful to someone
http://www.jp41.com/kanji/kuma.html here is another site with translator Japanese index http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
http://www.jp41.com/kanji/kuma.html here is another site with translator Japanese index http://home.earthlink.net/~steinrl/nihonto.htm
Last edited:
Meridian Blades
Moderator - Knife Maker
updated pics
It arrived from Japan today, and I tried to take a few pics of the blade. Hopefully you can see the markings a little better....
It arrived from Japan today, and I tried to take a few pics of the blade. Hopefully you can see the markings a little better....
S.Shepherd
Active Member
I wouldn't worry about re furbishing a yanagi like that. If you like it shiney, shine it up , and find someone to show you how to put a proper edge on it.
it's a kitchen "tool" and is ment to be used. Japanese kitchen knives don't hold the same reverence as swords, and you're not going to ruin it's value if you refurbish it.
it's a kitchen "tool" and is ment to be used. Japanese kitchen knives don't hold the same reverence as swords, and you're not going to ruin it's value if you refurbish it.
bubba-san
Well-Known Member
Nice blade larry , After ww2 some of the swordsmiths who originally made swords , started making kitchen ( hocho) knives and some became chisel and plane makers . If your blade was made by a good known maker it has value in that area . I found 2 chisels at an online auction , they were made by well know japanese bladesmith .I polished them up and resold them for a nice profit .