quenching oil?

killingerBlades

Well-Known Member
ok im going to takt the plunge and start heat treatin g my blades. its getting to hard to make 20 blanks at a time to send to heat treat. so which oil should i buy? im using 52100 and 01, after the rest of this 52100 is gone ill be just useing 01 for a wile.
 
I think Parks AAA is the best commerical oil for O1, being a "medium" speed oil. Canola oil works well, too, but some theorize it is a tad fast for O1.
 
I get great results on my 0-1 with canola oil but I'm looking at switching to the 11 second oil from mcmaster carr.
 
http://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/430/quench-oils

Interesting stuff. How often do you change your oil?
That is a difficult question to answer. It depends on your oil, and how much you use at a time to quench. Most commercial oils today, take Parks 50 for example, are engineered to be used over and over and over....for years and years. But if you're doing 20 blades a day, of course the oil won't last years and years and years.

Concerning canola oil, it won't last NEAR as long. I don't know if anyone could actually accurately quantify a number, but there is a reason commercial oils are recommended. Not only because they are formulated special for quenching, but they're also formulated to last.
 
Yeah I really like dealing with McMaster. I give away the catalogs they send me as gifts! When I first opened shop they wouldn't send me one as I didn't do enough business with them. Now that I do I'm used to their excellent online "catalog".

They have ground knife steel that is competitively priced.

O1 and A2 from Starret
D2 from Precision Marshall
I don't know who makes their 440C as I haven't bought any yet.
 
i listed mcmaster in the sticky on knife making suppliers. they are our go to supplier at the office, if they have it in stock(over 99% of the time) we usually have it in two days or less. PGFS you can shop and beat their prices, but for most everything else cant be beat. they are one of the few sources of quenching oil by the gallon or 5 gallon jug.
Does anyone know where one could find polymer quenchant by the the gallon?
 
http://www.maximoil.com/products.htm

I spoke to them about the polymer quenchant about 3 years ago and decided against it. If I remember right , there's more to it than just mixing it in water... such as testing it occasioally, getting the right mix/speed and the agitation tank. But I do beleive it was available in 5 gallon pails. It seemed it was more suited to large commercial applications than a small batch operation.

Rudy
 
Scott, what is polymer quenchant? Advantages?
it is a concentrate you mix with water. you adjust the quench speed by changing the percentage of concentrate. water based and biodegradable, no danger of fire. Dow's site says speed from warm brine to slow oil and everything in between. I need to see what we use in our other plant, they do induction hardening as parts are processed and they liquid quench.
 
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So you keep correct percentage with a refractometer? The no fire is cool. I wonder if a synthetic water soluble cutting fluid would work. I always have that on hand.
 
So you keep correct percentage with a refractometer? The no fire is cool. I wonder if a synthetic water soluble cutting fluid would work. I always have that on hand.

the cutting fluid is completely different stuff. i was just going to do 1 cup quench to 4 cups water yields 20%, check the cooling curves and go from there.
 
Quite a few questions here while I was gone to the Blade show.
On how long the oil should last- as has been mentioned a good quench oil is designed for heavy use over time by industry and not change in its performance so a knifemakers level of production will not even register on the scale in comparison… however…. Industry also takes good care of that oil, and so can run thousands of parts daily over long periods and not see changes while a careless knifemaker can trash the oil in one use if he doesn’t take care of it. Keep the oil clean, do not flash it or introduce contaminants. Catching the oil on fire is about the worst and I can’t advise people enough that if they wish to edge quench a jug of canola or other alternative that you don’t mind replacing every time is probably the way to go. Keep the oil covered and clean when not in use as dust is bad but perhaps the worst contaminant is moisture. If you keep a good mineral based engineered quenchant clean and working in the temperature range it was designed for, it should last you many years.

The polymer has also already been well described here. It is a water soluble solution that allows you to use water without blowing your blades apart. It mostly acts to regulate the last part of the liquid cooling phase at and below Ms, but it also helps even the heat extraction in the higher parts of the cooling curve. The hassle, as has also been mentioned, is that it needs to be carefully and continually regulated to keep it in the correct concentrations for what you are doing. I can’t even keep the correct concentrations, due to evaporation, in my coolant/cutting fluid sumps of my machinery, my quench tank would drive me batty.

Please be careful not to fall into the trap of concluding that if a product looks like, or works similarly to one of these carefully engineered products that it is interchangeable. Believe me I have been there and done that over my years of making and rarely, if ever has that been the case. I have even found that products with the same chemistry (that which is listed at least) are not interchangeable, as they were designed for completely different tasks, and the small little chemical or property differences that are not mentioned make huge changes; very small unmentioned chemistry changes can be very powerful.

One other note, most of those quench oils that you get from tool and machinery suppliers is actually repackaged Houghton products. They are still very good, but that is often the true source and where you can get data on them. Houghton is the oldest and perhaps the largest distributor of these products and so we are often working with their stuff and don't know it.
 
Thanks Kevin. I almost always regret trying one of my cheapie solutions.....so I won't start fiddling with thicker machining coolant!

Hope the show went well for you!
 
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