sloppy guard problems

theWeatherman

theWeatherman

Well-Known Member
So I have some problems with drilling and fitting my guard. I don't have a mill so I used a undersized drill bit and drilled the holes and then used a file to fit the tang. But It comes out crooked and sometimes oversize so I have to start over.

Can you guys give me a good process that will help with making it strait after drilling the holes. My holes are strait but using a file free hand seems to make me all crooked.

Help please!!!! Really frustrated today.
 
Do you have a set of those filing guilds? you can place your guard in between the two , line up the lowest point on the edge and start filing. I placed the guard in a vise and I used the top of my vise to do the same thing. As well, after you have done the filing. you can place the guard on the knife, and give the guard some good hits with a hammer and then clean up the guard. Frank
 
I guess my first question is what is your lay-out process, for instance i will dykem the piece and scribe my lines then down size my drill bit and then clean the holes out with a 4 flute end mill in the drill press to remove the material between the holes, and i also use miter/jewelers saw with a metal blade to remove the excess as well. Mr Niro's mention of the file guide is the key, i use a couple pieces of harden tool steel, that align on pins and fits in my vice, this is where i align my scribe my marks with the file jig, bring in some light, and patiently file away making multiple test fits along the way, however which way you choose to get it pressed up will work.
Hope that helps, im in the process of learning to solder my guards which is still making my hands sweat!:15:
Greg
 
It didn't dawn on me to use the file guide. That is a good idea.

I pretty much do what you do, GHaile, minus the mill etc and no file guide.

What is a 4 flute end mill? Because that might be a better way to go about it as well.

One problem is that my files are really old and bad, they went through a flood back in the day. I should buy newer smaller ones for the guards. Suggestions on good files?
 
The 4 flute has 4 cutting ends on it, and is flat faced so it doesnt "chatter" and "walk" all over the place. You can get them in every size the ones i have are double ended, enco is a good resource. I dont have a mill either...yet! Anyhow, Im learning to love my files and stop and brush them clean every few draws, not lay them on each other, and realize the good ones cost alot!! But.. I use packs of needle files from HF there cheap and thats the only reason why!
Nicholsons are in the middle.
Greg
 
Frank Niro said:
Do you have a set of those filing guilds? you can place your guard in between the two , line up the lowest point on the edge and start filing. I placed the guard in a vise and I used the top of my vise to do the same thing. As well, after you have done the filing. you can place the guard on the knife, and give the guard some good hits with a hammer and then clean up the guard. Frank
Click to expand...

Hey Frank! do you just hit the guard with the hammer or do you use some sort of cushion to protect it?

GHaile: Thanks for the idea on the files.
 
GHaile said:
The 4 flute has 4 cutting ends on it, and is flat faced so it doesnt "chatter" and "walk" all over the place. You can get them in every size the ones i have are double ended, enco is a good resource. I dont have a mill either...yet! Anyhow, Im learning to love my files and stop and brush them clean every few draws, not lay them on each other, and realize the good ones cost alot!! But.. I use packs of needle files from HF there cheap and thats the only reason why!
Nicholsons are in the middle.
Greg
Click to expand...

So you can use them as a drill bit but they don't chatter and walk? I know nothing about mill stuff yet and this sounds like a good bit type of have. What is double ended? Because that would make my life easier if they don't walk and chatter.
 
I used to drill the series of holes, but i never could get them all lined up in a straight line. So i started just drilling 2, at the scribe lines where the tang curves start, then scribing lines on the outside of the holes, and then using a jewlers saw to cut out the waste.

Then i use 4" nicholson files ( just boutght two new sets on ebay for $15 for each set of 6) and the a nicholson 6" to clean it up. The 4" files come in a set with a couple flat ones, round triangle and square. They are a bit bigger than needle files and have better handles. Its easiest for me to get a nice straight side if the file is just under the width of the tang, so i can just let the file cut straight like it wants to. Its tougher with a needle file to take an even ammount off a 3/4" side when the file might be 3/8" wide.

I dont use a file guide, just the tang to let me know how much to remove, but test fitting and filing away the shiney spots. I will say that the way you set the tang up is very important. Set it up with nice tapers, and measure the front and back of the ricasso before you start drilling so you know if the front or the back of the slot are the same or not.

I just timed fitting up the guards on the last 4 i did a week ago and averaged about 20 minutes to fit each one up. But i have been practicing alot, i did just over 100 last year.

I suppose if i had a mill i would use that, but its just hand files and a drill press for now.
 
Yes, I place the knife and guard on a very stable item. For me its a piece of 4" shaft about 6" long. and I use a good size hammer with a reasonable heavy hit. Say one on each side. For most of us, this is usually na solder job to finish it off but for one of my friends who does it this way on narrow tangs more often not so. Frank
 
I could never seem to line up the punches for three or more holes in my guards, so I started using a half inch chisel to make a mark that keeps everything in line.

Dick
 
I had problems with the bits wandering when I tried to drill on the layout line. I found that if you got a very short bit, I actually used a counter sink bit, to start the hole then switch to a longer bit I could keep the holes lined up better.

Doug
 
Doug Lester said:
I had problems with the bits wandering when I tried to drill on the layout line. I found that if you got a very short bit, I actually used a counter sink bit, to start the hole then switch to a longer bit I could keep the holes lined up better.

Doug
Click to expand...

That is pretty clever as well! I might have to try this one.
 
Yep Weatherman they chuck right up in the drill press, the double ends is cutters on both ends of the bit, kinda 2 for 1!
 
They should last just as long if treated well. You do have to watch the pressure that you put on them with the really small diameter primary bit or you can snap them off but then you can break any small bit if you put too much pressure on them. The last ones that I got I bought at Jantz. They will eventually wear out but they're not all that expensive and you only use them to start the holes. I find that they line up real easy on a scribed line.

Doug
 
If you are going to be using end mills as drill bits, then you better have a vise that can be locked down to your drill table. A end mill is used primarily for side milling. The end of the mill cutter is used to drill a hole and then mill it in a side direction. All of this must be locked down so it does not move.
 
tomwatson said:
If you are going to be using end mills as drill bits, then you better have a vise that can be locked down to your drill table. A end mill is used primarily for side milling. The end of the mill cutter is used to drill a hole and then mill it in a side direction. All of this must be locked down so it does not move.
Click to expand...

Understood. Thank you.
 
Also helps to put a slight taper on you tang so it almost goes far enough but needs a tap or two from the backside to seat it.
 
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