What governs your knife making design & features?

Now, I am not selling a horde of knives (yet), but have managed to sell pretty much everything I have made so here goes:

First and foremost the knife must be a practical tool, unless I have taken a commission for a ceremonial blade. Those knives for the most part don't have a practical reason.

Second, I take pride on being a "green" business, and because of that aspect I prefer to use re-purposed high carbon steels. The idea that a nice piece of high carbon sophisticated steel will be melted into rebar makes me cringe. Waste of resources, waste of energy....just waste.

Third, the knife should be attractive to the eye, but the beauty should not interfere with its practical application. To much metal where the skin meets the knife means very cold hands on a winter day. Hard antler edges are not friendly to the skin either. Blood makes a knife slippery in the extreme. Is the knife safe to use?

Finally, I begin each new knife design, as many of you do, on a piece of graph paper and may re-draw it many times until satisfied. I then cut out the design with a torch, modify as necessary on the stone grinder, then when completely satisfied with the overall design make a template for further blades. All that being said, I make no great effort to duplicate blades....that is a mind numbing excercise and stifles creativity.

I started out making blades to the customers wants, but I think from now on I will just make 'em and show on the website. If they like they can buy and this keeps me fresh and inspired rather than bored and losing creative spirit. Otherwise, I will be cranking out "drop point hunters" like oreo cookies and we all know where that leads. If we don't listen to the creative spirit then I don't think there will be much innovation through knifemakers land. And, that innovation is what makes American Knifemakers unique.

My inspiration comes from many sources including this forum. Past experience, stone tools, historic blades with a long history, military history all play a part in this business called inspiration as well as innovation. I do not reject any form of knifemaking....no snobbery here. I will use stock removal, forging, torching, grinding as tools to shape a blade and I use those various tools as the inspiration du jour moves me. I perform all heat treatment in house. I believe that is an integral part of the knifemaking process and should be learned by everyone. If you have an old barbeque grill and a bucket you can do heat treating of some kind. If I began using stainless I would do that heat treatment in house as well. I am sure there is some form of stainless which can be heat treated reasonably well in-house.
 
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No Snobbery was implied, If your are referring to my post?
The purpose of this was to hear what governs you! The maker! I do agree that each of us should hand heat treat a few blades so we get a full understanding of what is going on and see the process before our eyes. Like I have with 1080 carbon and some files.

But since I have settled "At least for now!" On Semi & stainless steels, I send them to Paul Bos Heat treatment. a Part of Buck Knives.
They have about a million $$$ "from what I have heard" In state of the art heat treatment equipment and they second quench in liquid nitrogen. They have a full time staff that does nothing but the heat treatment.

I want my knives to have the very best possible heat treatment possible,Your statement of
(I am sure there is some form of stainless which can be heat treated reasonably well in-house.) See reasonably well doesn't cut it for me especially when it comes to heat treatment. It doesn't matter
what steel you have, If it's not heat treated properly it's a inferior product.

Some makers buy a programmable oven and get a Dewar of Liquid Nitrogen etc.. and if that's what they want thats fine. And I know some makers thatmake and heat treat their own Stainless Steel knives and there are excellent. I choose to go with Buck knives for that part and I tell my customers so.

Anyone else care to chime in about what governs your Knife making?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
rhinoknives said:
Hi Joel,
I can relate to leaving the abandon car cutting to others.
The Neo-folks love that stuff and that's fine! Not for this kid!

I had a friends son ask me to make a Chef's knife for him out of a 1940's Maserati leaf spring or some such?
I said that I didn't forge and worked with new Stainless Steels by stock removal for my culinary knives.
He said, Well can you grind a blade of this? Showing me a weathered & rusted old leaf spring that looked like it survived a couple of wars! I said, WHY?

I did make a few out of used files when I started and couldn't afford new Stainless, But I will leave that recycle stuff for others.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
Click to expand...
Yeah on that!
My early knives were made of industrial power hacksaw blades. Due to the hardness, it was a chore to mirror polish. Diamond past was the bingo for that. Folks knew what I was using for the blades and really liked the knives. I have another order for one, a work knife for an electrician.

I had a run on kitchen knives using the power hacksaw blades, as well as the same for hunting knives. The conversation kitchen knives had exibition grade wood handles when possible. The knives had matching wood stands. Fellas were buying them for their wives, a more or less kitchen table conversation piece.

I reckon you fellas get a lot of questions about different junkyard stuff that folks want to make knives of. That's just what most of it is, junk and not good blade material, as we know.

I got so many orders for the power hacksaw blade knives that exceeded my source of scrounged worn out hacksaw blades that I had to buy new $35 Sterratt (SP?) blades. They make them in two thicknesses, .088 and .100. That wasn't so bad, though. I could usually get two knife blades out of one hacksaw blade.

I was greatly relieved to finally graduate to regular knife steels and work my way away from using that hard stuff!
 
I make what I like, If I would take it out and use it or enjoy looking at it. I feel that is the only way to really enjoy the process. If someone else likes it, then we'll talk about price.....
 
Speaking of design, I make longer handles than many makers, due to a knife being a tool. There is nothing more useless than a hand tool with a too short handle.

Minimum length for one of my handles is 4 1/2" with many running longer. When taking an order and talking to the customer, I use my hand palm placed against their using hand palm for a gauge. Minimum length should be the full width of the palm of their hand, as you already probably know. It makes for a more personal point when discussing a knife to build for someone and it seems to be a great selling point. It makes for a real custom fit.

I also talk customers out of the idea of useless finger grooves in the handle. Palm swells are good, but grooves, NOT. I explain the best way to test this theory is for them to try to use a finger grooved handled knife with the sharp edge up. The gooves will quickly make the handle very uncomfortable.
 
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John Andrews said:
Speaking of design, I make longer handles than many makers, due to a knife being a tool. There is nothing more useless than a hand tool with a too short handle.

Minimum length for one of my handles is 4 1/2" with many running longer. When taking an order and talking to the customer, I use my hand palm placed against their using hand palm for a gauge. Minimum length should be the full width of the palm of their hand, as you already probably know. It makes for a more personal point when discussing a knife to build for someone and it seems to be a great selling point. It makes for a real custom fit.

I also talk customers out of the idea of useless finger grooves in the handle. Palm swells are good, but grooves, NOT. I explain the best way to test this theory is for them to try to use a finger grooved handled knife with the sharp edge up. The grooves will quickly make the handle very uncomfortable.
Click to expand...

Yes, My handles run on the longer side as well.
5 1/2" is were I start perhaps shortening to 5" is about as short as I go, There are always exceptions.

I made a few Kishashi Spelling? Small chisel grind knives for a Concerto Obo player for him to trim and shape his reeds while preforming. These had 2 1/2" handles & 2" Blades so they were pocket sized.

I have great response from my customers from properly done finger grooves when using the edge towards you. I just do grooves for the first two fingers, I put a half circle Ricassio that extends 1/4" plus pass the cutting edge. This gives a nice thumb spot when towards you with a culinary knife.

Thumb ramps work very well for wrapping your index finger over when working towards you as well.


Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com.
 
this is a very interesting thread,
when designing, i almost always start with a curve in the spine of the knife, i use french curves to draw the design,
i love curves and organic flow on one side and geometry and high precision machined look on the other, and try to combine them, i can design a knfe for 3-6 hours.
i love working with wood, i'm an addict like some other makers here:), i'm very strict about combining materials, some things just don't look right to me,
i choose matirials by their look and function and not by their price.

i hardly ever design a knife with a spasific purpose in mind , i have to say, that looks is my guide and not function like alot of you said, but somehow i never made a knife that is not functional, i gusse that i'm just drawn to the practical look by instinct.

i don't think i would ever make an automatic knife or a bali song, it's just not my thing
 
lerman said:
this is a very interesting thread,
when designing, i almost always start with a curve in the spine of the knife, i use french curves to draw the design,
i love curves and organic flow on one side and geometry and high precision machined look on the other, and try to combine them, i can design a knfe for 3-6 hours.
i love working with wood, i'm an addict like some other makers here:), i'm very strict about combining materials, some things just don't look right to me,
i choose matirials by their look and function and not by their price.

i hardly ever design a knife with a spasific purpose in mind , i have to say, that looks is my guide and not function like alot of you said, but somehow i never made a knife that is not functional, i gusse that i'm just drawn to the practical look by instinct.

i don't think i would ever make an automatic knife or a bali song, it's just not my thing
Click to expand...

Were are a very diverse lot! Knives that work for me! Meaning hit my hot button are working type knives.
I am not one for Auto's or Balisong type blades ether. I have made only two daggers.
One for a friend that was going to a troubled part of the world after 9/11.

And one by accident!:biggrin: Early on, in knife making I messed up on my grinding and it was now time to make a dagger! LOL.

When I look & handle a knife blade, I asked myself how I would see myself working with that blade?
Weather it's a Culinary, Ranch,Skinner etc?
Then I think to myself? How could I improve on that design? If I change the drop in the front?
If I change the balance point? How would that change any fatigue factor?
If I change the handle or the arch of the spine? what would it add or take away from the function of the design?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
My 2 cents...
I always thought that it was a foregone conclusion that if you were to make knives that it obviously had to be not only attractive, but functional as well. If the knife you make is not functional (see heat treat et al) you wont have many return customers (unless they just display...and non of my knives are display quality).
In most cases I make my knives to do a specific job. I like fancy wood, but in some cases it isnt practical and just costs more. I like finger grooves when they fit the application, but have done some because the customer asked for it. I like to see what others are doing and if I like something I use it.

As for designing...if it is one of my designs I do what appeals to me personally.
 
gaelic forge said:
Now, I am not selling a horde of knives (yet), but have managed to sell pretty much everything I have made so here goes:

First and foremost the knife must be a practical tool, unless I have taken a commission for a ceremonial blade. Those knives for the most part don't have a practical reason.

Second, I take pride on being a "green" business, and because of that aspect I prefer to use re-purposed high carbon steels. The idea that a nice piece of high carbon sophisticated steel will be melted into rebar makes me cringe. Waste of resources, waste of energy....just waste.

Third, the knife should be attractive to the eye, but the beauty should not interfere with its practical application. To much metal where the skin meets the knife means very cold hands on a winter day. Hard antler edges are not friendly to the skin either. Blood makes a knife slippery in the extreme. Is the knife safe to use?

Finally, I begin each new knife design, as many of you do, on a piece of graph paper and may re-draw it many times until satisfied. I then cut out the design with a torch, modify as necessary on the stone grinder, then when completely satisfied with the overall design make a template for further blades. All that being said, I make no great effort to duplicate blades....that is a mind numbing excercise and stifles creativity.

I started out making blades to the customers wants, but I think from now on I will just make 'em and show on the website. If they like they can buy and this keeps me fresh and inspired rather than bored and losing creative spirit. Otherwise, I will be cranking out "drop point hunters" like oreo cookies and we all know where that leads. If we don't listen to the creative spirit then I don't think there will be much innovation through knifemakers land. And, that innovation is what makes American Knifemakers unique.

My inspiration comes from many sources including this forum. Past experience, stone tools, historic blades with a long history, military history all play a part in this business called inspiration as well as innovation. I do not reject any form of knifemaking....no snobbery here. I will use stock removal, forging, torching, grinding as tools to shape a blade and I use those various tools as the inspiration du jour moves me. I perform all heat treatment in house. I believe that is an integral part of the knifemaking process and should be learned by everyone. If you have an old barbeque grill and a bucket you can do heat treating of some kind. If I began using stainless I would do that heat treatment in house as well. I am sure there is some form of stainless which can be heat treated reasonably well in-house.
Click to expand...

No, no snobbery implied or suggested. ???? I would not criticize anyone here or critique unless asked to do so.

And, inspiration is the driving force. I was illustrating the elements of that force, at least for me anyway.

I understand completely the rationale behind using a specialist to heat treat stainless. That is a way to go for excellent heat treatment, especially with all the sophisticated stainless and alloy steels out there these days. I still wonder if there is a way to perform excellent heat treatment in house and thank you for pointing out my very inexact wording, "reasonably well" It was not meant to imply less than stirling quality in any respect.

Sheesh.
 
Yor are welcome my friend for any or all words of wisdom that I have passed on!
I learned from the giants in front of me. And figured out very little for myself!
That was one of the most important things that drew me and kept me interested in Knife Making!
The free flow of information from those before me.!
They truly wanted to teach me if I was willing to listen? With nothing expected in return except a listening ear & a TRUE desire to learn.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
This is contained within my bio so to speak that I send out with each knife. It will be part of my website when and if I ever get around to finishing it and opening it!:what!::biggrin: Anyway it describes exactly what governs my knife making design and features.

Your custom knife and sheath have been hand crafted in shop entirely by myself. Many hours of hard work have gone into them from concept to the finished product. My knives are influenced by a desire to build each piece with three factors in mind, purpose, appearance and balance in hand.
I want the finished product to look so good, you just have to pick it up, to feel so good in your hand that you don’t' want to put it down and every time you use it, you have to say to yourself; “I love that knife”!
Capturing those three factors in each build assures me that the knife will become a piece that is used and treasured by its owner!
 
C Craft said:
This is contained within my bio so to speak that I send out with each knife. It will be part of my website when and if I ever get around to finishing it and opening it!:what!::biggrin: Anyway it describes exactly what governs my knife making design and features.

Your custom knife and sheath have been hand crafted in shop entirely by myself. Many hours of hard work have gone into them from concept to the finished product. My knives are influenced by a desire to build each piece with three factors in mind, purpose, appearance and balance in hand.
I want the finished product to look so good, you just have to pick it up, to feel so good in your hand that you don’t' want to put it down and every time you use it, you have to say to yourself; “I love that knife”!
Capturing those three factors in each build assures me that the knife will become a piece that is used and treasured by its owner!
Click to expand...

That's a great code of conduct you have there!

Anyone else like to chime in on what get's you going in design & features of your knives?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com/
 
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