Your Thoughts on Kitchen Knives, Please

James Terrio

James Terrio

Well-Known Member
I like good knives, and I like to eat.:D

So, this thread is for makers and users alike... what do you look for in good kitchen knives? For instance...

Putting any knife in a dishwasher voids my warranties. There's just too many things going on in there that can dull an edge, scar a fine finish or loosen handles. Does this seem reasonable?

What's your preferred length for a basic, use-for-everything-if-you-had-to-choose-just-one blade in your food-prep tasks?

Do you prefer the French-style chef's knife, a Japanese santuko (sp?) or another style?

What if you could choose three or four knives? How would you design them for different tasks? I notice on TV that most big-name cooks/chefs use one big knife and one itty-bitty paring knife. Frankly, this makes a lot of sense to me. The knives I use everyday are a 7" French-style chef knife and a 4" scandi mora. I sometimes wish the small knife was even smaller; I haven't really noticed a need for a medium-size blade.

I don't care much for serrated knives in the kitchen. I never had a problem slicing bread or steak with a sharp "normal" edge.

I know folks who butcher their own game seem to like a couple more blades, like a skinner, boning knife, fillet knife and a cleaver. If you hunt/fish, please share your thoughts.

Do you like full-flat or convex grinds? Does it make much difference in such a thin blade?

Do you like blades with either Granton grooves or holes in them? Do the grooves/holes really help moist food-stuffs (say, tomato slices) fall off the blade? Or are they just harder to clean?

What finish do you like on your kitchen knives? Would you pay more for a mirror polish, or is a decent satin finish more your preference?

What handle materials do you prefer? I recently won a knife (thank you Keith Willis! :)) with Corian scales, and man it feels and looks nice. Just think if you could offer a customer knives that match their countertops! I reckon that would be pretty cool. Of course, there's plenty of other options for a durable handle, like micarta, dymondwood, G10 or natural/stabilized exotic woods.

What about your cutting block? Personally, I cringe when I see people using a fine edge against a glass, stainless steel or ceramic/synthetic surface... yikes :mad:. I found a very interesting article here that shows hardwood cutting boards are not only much gentler on edges, but actually safer in terms of bacteria.

I've seen bamboo cutting boards but never used one, anyone got experience with those?

Thank you for your time and input. I think kitchen knives are just as fascinating as hunting or survival knives, and honestly most people use them a heck of a lot more often.

The CATRA site also has some good information on the making and care of kitchen knives.
 
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I can't add much input, but I along with these questions, what about the steel type of a kitchen knife? Is carbon steel vs stainless steel a big factor? Dealing with water often I would think stainless would be preferred, or something like D2 or even A2 which has some Chromium for corrosion resistance.
 
Wow James thats alot of questions. I try to anser a few. I like a mirror finish and stainless steel is the best. I did a santoku for my sister and she loves it. That is my sharpest ive ever made a knife. I took a mushy tomatoe and sliced it into 40 slices without the juice all over the place. I void all warranty if my knives are put in the dish washer. Who ever said wood is suppose to go in the dish washer is so so wrong. I would use ats 34 cpm154 or 154cm for nice high end kitchen knives in the traditional japanese styles they have proven themselves for thousands of years why argue .
 
I didn't mention carbon vs. stainless steel because it's so subjective, and there are excellent steels available in both classes. Personally, I would choose a steel with a bit more alloy to keep an edge longer (I'm inherently lazy). D2 is good for this, and I like CPM154 a lot. But I also love O1, 1095 etc for the good-looking patina they develop and it's easy to sharpen them, just have to do it a lil more often.

ANY good cutlery steel will eventually rust if you really abuse it. IMHO the rust factor is highly over-rated. I have a 1095 K-bar (no coating on the blade) that has been stored in a leather sheath for 20 years; yes it has some spots and marks on it but it is NOT ruined. The sheath is in worse shape than the blade, by far. Just sayin'.

Anyways! :) For the purposes of this thread, I'm more concerned about blade design/features; let the customer decide which steel he/she likes best. Same goes for handle material.

Sorry for so many questions, when I get to thinkin', maybe I think too much. :eek:
 
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My most used and favorite Kitchen Knife is a 7" Santuko with Granton grooves and synthetic handle. I use it more than any knife i own except my work EDC.

I like a nice flat grind in a satin finish. I would not pay extra for mirror finish on a Kitchen knife.

Wood is nice, but I like something more durable like G10 for handle material. If it was to pretty I may not use it!

My second favorite knife is just a simple 4" Paring Knife.

I think the serrated edge bread knives in my sets are a waste. I never use them. My wife likes them though.

As for cutting boards I use various size plastic ones that are said to be anti-bacterial...I have never had any problems in the germ area as I just clean everything well.

Our house came with a Corian cutting board that matches the counter tops, but I never use it. I'm not sure if it's to hard, but it's slick when wet.

Hope this helps...
 
For a long time my main large knife was a carbon steel Chinese cleaver. Had a 10" Chef's but seldom used it. When we got a Wusthof Santoku for free (promo from my wife's part time job at a gourmet kitchen store) it became both of our favorite knife.

Then I made my first Chef's knife - a thin 8" rather Japanese style one. It's been my favorite for the last year+. Stock removal A2.

I also use a number of other knives, including a 7-8" replica of an Old Hickory butcher knife I made out of A2 with a tulipwood handle and about 1/2 dozen paring knives from a variety of sources (3 of them mine).

I see no reason for a polished blade on a kitchen knife and strongly prefer wood handles. Prefer carbon steel somewhat but plan to make myself a few 13C26 knives in the next year or so to see how that steel works. Also plan to make some smaller CPM 3V knives in .048" stock -- IMHO thinner is better for paring and fillet knives. I also expect to make at least one forged simple steel kitchen knife for myself in that time frame -- I want to get good enough to forge an almost traditional European Chef's knife, but rather doubt that I'll use it instead of my current one. Yes, the number of things in this list, plus others that I hope to sell, is why the time frame is a rather extended guess.

I prefer wood cutting boards. We have several bamboo ones that I like though I have a pretty end grain teak one in the back of my wife's store that we'll pay for soon.

Here's a pic I took last week for another forum of the knives I've made myself in my kitchen, it's pretty clear that they're all carbon steel:
 

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Chris
Im like you it sounds. I love to cook, and also love making knives!
Ive worked in professional kitchens, and even owned my own for a while.

Here are a couple of observations Ive made over the years, Blade material is not nearly as important as proper handeling and sharpening. To demonstrate this I purchased 2 identical Russel pro chef series knives in a 10" French Chef pattern with white anti bacterial handles. One I marked with a notch, it was "MY" knife. To be used only by me for 1 month, the other I left for the kitchen staff to use. To further explain, I did 90% of all prep work in this kitchen, from breaking down meats to chopping veggies. The end of the month told the tale. Mine was still sharp, and the other was dull. My point in all this is that I steeled mine before almost every use, and always took care when using it. These were 440 blades BTW.

Now from a knifemakers standpoint. I make on the avg 60 kitchen knives per year. Most were purchased by chefs or professional cooks. Out of the 60, close to 90% are carbon steel. Ive switched from 1095 to 52100 now that its available in workable size stock.

Finish, I take all blades to a 600 grit hand finish then switch to a new green scotch brite pad. A package of pads is supplied with each knife. This allows the customer to clean their blades back to "Original Finish" without much work.

Handles, Ive used many woods, and my favorite Unstabilized wood is Brazilian Rose wood. It has a lot of oil in it and withstands water fairly well. If I have a choice in the matter it is stabilized wood or micarta. This takes the "Dumb Factor" out of the picture for the most part (thought not always!) on the Corian, Ive not used it yet but have heard good things from it.

Cutting boards, Give me the plain ol white cutting boards! They are soft enough to not hurt an edge, but hard enough to take the abuse. I have tried the Bamboo and a sharp knife will cut it, then it leaves a VERY hard proud edge on the board. (Ive actually cut myself washing one on this type of cut mark!) But to each his or her own.

My best advise is make a few designs and play with them, just saw one in Blade thats a Santoku style blade with a clipped nose that gives it a much sharper point that I want to try! Same thing with steel. If Im trying out a new kitchen knife steel, Ill make 3 boning style blades and give them to my friend the butcher to try. He is my best "Test Medium" and is honest and hard on knives without being abusive. (plus he always helps me out when its time to buy steaks!)

Dont be afraid to try new things, thats how we all learn, just try to honestly evaluate what you do.

Didnt mean to get on a rant, just my kind of post!

God Bless
Mike
 
Diamond G Knives said:
I make on the avg 60 kitchen knives per year. Most were purchased by chefs or professional cooks. Out of the 60, close to 90% are carbon steel.
Click to expand...

I'm not surprised. I've heard the same from butchers, they don't need super edge retention because they know how to steel a fine edge. On the other hand, sometimes the average Joe or Joann thinks honing and sharpening is some weird secret and is intimidated to even try it :confused: So they might prefer very high edge-retention.

Thanks for your thoughts guys, exactly the kind of stuff I was asking for. :)
 
ilike O1 and cpm154 but have done 1084 and cpm10v (and a few inbetween)

finish the i want nothing to do with mirror as more food will stick to it and it will get scuffed in everyday use and look like crap in short order (tho carbon will take a lot of nice color )
be it a nice hand rub (semi easy to fix back up) or nice sctochbrite belt finish

my in house set is a 10 inch slicer 7 inch nikiri SP? and a 5.5 inch petty (i rarely use the slicer and petty tho ) i have a peeler so i dont have much need for a parring knife
my next set will be much the same but i think i wantot try a new steel
 
james terrio said:
I like good knives, and I like to eat.:D

So, this thread is for makers and users alike... what do you look for in good kitchen knives? For instance...
I look for extreme Sushi Chef type sharpness, good edge retention, comfortable attractive handle, relative ease of resharpening, easy maintainability is a nice bonus too, I also prefer a very very wide blade on my large knives.

Putting any knife in a dishwasher voids my warranties. There's just too many things going on in there that can dull an edge, scar a fine finish or loosen handles. Does this seem reasonable? Yes!

What's your preferred length for a basic, use-for-everything-if-you-had-to-choose-just-one blade in your food-prep tasks? 8"

Do you prefer the French-style chef's knife, a Japanese santuko (sp?) or another style? Santoku

What if you could choose three or four knives? How would you design them for different tasks? I notice on TV that most big-name cooks/chefs use one big knife and one itty-bitty paring knife. Frankly, this makes a lot of sense to me. The knives I use everyday are a 7" French-style chef knife and a 4" scandi mora. I sometimes wish the small knife was even smaller; I haven't really noticed a need for a medium-size blade.
I lean towards SS, but D2 does work well for rust resistance.
I have a 8" San Mai White and Blue super steel Gyuto Chef knife, 6" SS 16 layer Chefs Petty knife W a VG 110 core, and a Sushi Chefs 3" paring knife White steel. When I had a wide 3-1/2" bladed Santoku, and a 3" paring knife, those 2 were my go to blades.

I think a narrow, 1 or 2" long blade (birds beak) paring knife would come in pretty handy at certain times but I think that a 3" long, narrow blade would be used much more often (at least by me), and I think a 4" is still sometimes too much blade for me on the smaller cutting tasks.

I don't care much for serrated knives in the kitchen. I never had a problem slicing bread or steak with a sharp "normal" edge. 2guns

I know folks who butcher their own game seem to like a couple more blades, like a skinner, boning knife, fillet knife and a cleaver. If you hunt/fish, please share your thoughts.

Do you like full-flat or convex grinds? Does it make much difference in such a thin blade? I like Full flat grinds for thin bladed Kitchen knives.

Do you like blades with either Granton grooves or holes in them? Do the grooves/holes really help moist food-stuffs (say, tomato slices) fall off the blade? Or are they just harder to clean? No Granton/holes, I have a Granton blade and IME their not very much help, and I dont really like the look.

What finish do you like on your kitchen knives? Would you pay more for a mirror polish, or is a decent satin finish more your preference? I like a Mirror or fine satin finish.
What handle materials do you prefer? I recently won a knife (thank you Keith Willis! :)) with Corian scales, and man it feels and looks nice. Just think if you could offer a customer knives that match their counter tops! I reckon that would be pretty cool. Of course, there's plenty of other options for a durable handle, like micarta, dymondwood, G10 or natural/stabilized exotic woods. I prefer nat. stab. exotic woods for handles.

What about your cutting block? Personally, I cringe when I see people using a fine edge against a glass, stainless steel or ceramic/synthetic surface... yikes :mad:. I found a very interesting article here that shows hardwood cutting boards are not only much gentler on edges, but actually safer in terms of bacteria. I use a soft white poly board just like your butcher does; same stuff.
I have a Bamboo board and use it to cut dry bread, nothing wet or hard and keep it around just for looks.
Respectfully, I think if you look into it a bit further, you are going to find that porous materials are a very good breeding ground for bacteria, even after being bleached, just look at what type of cutting surface is required by law in your local butcher shop.
I've seen bamboo cutting boards but never used one, anyone got experience with those? Answered above.

Thank you for your time and input. I think kitchen knives are just as fascinating as hunting or survival knives, and honestly most people use them a heck of a lot more often.
I agree, I'm very picky about my prep knives!

The CATRA site also has some good information on the making and care of kitchen knives.
Click to expand...

I hope this helps you out.cool 1
 
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As a former food professional pro the only knives you want a fin finish on is a skinning or boning knife to allow the slip through. On other knives you want a bit of tooth to the finis so as the product you are cutting does not stick to the blade via suction. I like forged knives I use German and US bladed 7 " chef and paring knives are my go to. The paring knives are trashed yearly so i use an mid to upper level Dexter Russel I prefer pholonic slabs. You really need to have one or two serrated knives one for very fine tooth for hams and cold cuts and one for bread and or fragile fruit prep ( IE tomatoes) My knives get treated well but can not be expected to last a life time in catering and home use it is just unreasonable to think so. A lot of retail knives are hog wash look at the mid to upper commercial , customs are quite different category above. You need to find a handle style that suits you no matter what the blade is if you are not comfortable the knife is of no use.
 
If it's meant for use on a cutting board, make sure it has knuckle clearance. Functional it should be without saying, but a custom should really look the part.

Just thoughts, Craig
 
As a chef I take my knives VERY seriously. Big things for me are feel in the hand, sharpness, and edge retention. One of my favorite chef knives in my collection is a vintage 12 inch Trident carbon steel French style chefs knife. It's at least 50 years old, and looks like hell to the casual observer, but to me it's beautiful, the patina is something you cannot fake no matter what you do. The handle is some sort of very dark wood riveted on, traditional shape.

I have bought thousands of dollars of chefs knives, I collect and use them all. My favorite for big jobs is a Misono carbon steel checf I picked up at epicurian edge (http://www.epicedge.com) a while back. Great balance, fits the hand well. Some of the Shun/Kershaw line are really nice, but I find myself going back to my old reliables over and over again. I have a Mac 6 inch utility (kind of a long paring knife) that I use a freaking lot for fine work. Several different boning/fillet knives, depending on what I am boning/filleting. I have a off brand 8 inch chef from my culinary school knife kit thats actually fairly decent for a stainless knife.

Granton edges are cool on things like loooonnng flexible slicers. I have one and it's not hard to clean, I only use it when I am doing tableside or buffet show carving though.

Glass cutting boards should be banned. I have a hardwood chopping block in my kitchen, and when I am doing some SERIOUS (cleaver) chopping I use a heavy weight pro-grade plastic one on top of it. the bamboo boards I have seen are nice, I've used em and they don't seem to blunt my knives any more than normal wood or plastic.

this brings me to cleavers, I love em! I have several asian style and a couple of western ones...including a MONSTER that has like a hand and a half grip on it. Most of them are antiques but I still use em. makes short work of breaking down sub primals into chops lemme tellya. Also I can break down a chicken in under a minute with one of my asian cleavers. I should do a video on this, not that I am the greatest at it, but it isn't that hard...

As far as grinds go...it depends. Some of my knives are hollw ground, not the best in my opinion. I like a flat grind to the edge, with a convex edge. My cleavers are full convex.

Serrated bread knives are cool, I buy em cheap, use em up and throw them away. That said, other serrated knives are usually garbage

As far as steels go, I just go with quality or a good heat treat. Alot of my knives are carbon steel of indertiminate lineage, but are heat treated really well. My staoinless knives are similar in that i don't know what kind of steel they are using in many instances, but I do know it works. i thought about commissioning a S90V 10 inch chefs knife with a full tang and ironwood slabs for a while now, just to see how well it would perform. Make it a coffin handle just to be kinky. Oh and a brass bolster, soldered and pinned in place to keep the gunk out

As far as finish goes, satin is fine as long as it is smooth. No gnarly grind marks please.

And as far as the French V Santoku goes? I'm a french knife kinda guy, he santoklus never felt right for me, and I have tried alot of em.

I know I answered em out of order...but hey I answered em LOL
 
I spent quite a long time on the kitchen knife forums at knifeforums and foodieforums before I decided to make my own knife, because I couldn't afford a custom chef's knife in AEB-L and I thought how hard can it be!

I have both carbon and stainless kitchen knives (Stainless, my AEB-l 270, Masamoto vg10 240, wife's parer 12c27 100mm and a Carbon CCK slicing cleaver with custom handle and W-2 French profile 240). My wife is still in training as to how not turbo-patinate carbon knives, so I went with fine grained AEB-L stainless that I had wanted to try after hearing about it from Larrin Thomas and thombrogan. I need a serrated bread knife, but I have no other use for a serrated knife.

http://sites.google.com/site/alexnharvey/home/knifemaking/10-gyuto-aeb-l

Since the pictures shown at my site were taken I decided I needed to go back to the grinder. The edge as pictured was flat from the handle and then curved up approx 1/2" over the last 2-3". I changed it so that the radius of the belly curve was the same along the entire length. I keep it sharp enough to push cut almost everything, so I want the belly to be flat enough that things are cut the whole way through without adding a drawing motion to the cut. The smooth radius belly makes rocking to mince things easier. My next 4 10" knives will have about 3/8" belly over the whole length. I guess the shape I have settled on is effectively a large Santoku. The 'French' shape does not work so well for me and the way I cut.

I also made a small parer for my wife which is 1" wide by 4" long, and she uses it for most tasks.

Cutting board, a friend made me an end-grain maple board which is beautiful, I top it with a thin plastic board from ikea for raw meat. I have a bamboo board which I no longer use as I found it hard on edges.

I think I will add a fine scotchbrite finish along the length of my knives in future, as mentioned by diamond G and others, since that's what they end up with after washing anyway. I have not found that surface finish makes much/any difference to food sticking, my CCK chinese cleaver had a (guess) 80 grit back bevel and stuff still stuck.
 
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