1095

Gahagan

Gahagan

Well-Known Member
What is the differance in HR and CRA in 1095 steels? I have a local guy here trying to get rid of some at a good price but I dont know the difference. I dont forge if that makes a difference.
 
HR = Hot Rolled, tough to cut for stock removal without annealing.

CRA = Cold Rolled Annealed, I hear this stuff is awesome for stock removal and cuts like butter.

I have limited experience with 1095, but if you are planning to forge, you should have a concern between the two.

EDIT: Sorry, I should have proofed this before I posted. I meant to say, "if you are planning to forge, you shouldn't have a concern between the two".
 
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I've never used HR but I have ground CRA 1095. Murph is right, it means it's fully annealed and it grinds very easily. IIRC you're used to working with 440C and similar, it will definitely grind easier than that. I'm guessing the HR would be tougher on your belts and drill bits.

If you can get the HR stuff at a good price, and have a kiln or other way you can anneal it yourself, go for it. Search here or google ways to anneal without a proper kiln or forge, too. If the price is low enough it might be worth the extra work.

Either way it can certainly make very good knives. A bazillion or so Ka-Bars can't be wrong! It's usually in the top 5 when you ask carbon-steel fans about their favorite alloys. It's easy to sharpen and takes a really nice keen edge, and can take a really good finish.
 
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I'm sorry guys:
Murph is correct HR stands for Hot Rolled
CR stands for Cold Rolled.

Now, Hot Rolled means that it was rolled when it was hot and the tolerancences are not real close.
Cold Rolled is Hot Rolled that has been run through the rolling mill a second time cold. This does several things. It breaks the mill scale off, it gets to stock to closer tolerances. ie 1/2". Hot Rolled is actually a little more than Cold Rolled and has mill scale. The 1/2" Cold Rolled is really 1/2" and has very square corners. Cold Rolled also is work hardened. It is actually harder than Hot Rolled only because of the work hardening. I suspect that the reason that Murph feels that it grinds "like butter" is because the mill scale is gone. The Mill Scale is harder than the actual metal.
You can recognize the difference because Cold Rolled will be brighter in color and in square or flat stock the corners are very crisp. With square or round stock a mike will show that the Cold Rolled is the actual size. Generally speaking Cold Rolled is more expensive than Hot Rolled.

I have heard discussions by blacksmiths that Cold Rolled is harder than Hot Rolled.... Not if you are forging it! Once you have brought it up to temperature the work hardening is gone.

When I go to salvage yards if I can get Cold Rolled at the same price as Hot rolled I'll go for it. If I am making shafts for my Moe's Grinders, I'll pay the extra to get Cold Rolled. If it is stock that I am forging I'll go for the best price because once I heated it up it is all the same alloy.
 
I understand about HR vs. CR. Thank you for explaining the difference better than I could, Wayne.

I've been told by several knifemakers, steel sellers and the info that mills publish, that the "A" means annealed, a process that happens subsequently to the cold-rolling. To bring the stock back to an easy-to-work state. As I understand it, that's why it usually costs significantly more. I admit that I'm not an engineer or metallurgist and don't fully know the rules for listing 1095 one way or another.

I humbly submit that I may be completely wrong on all this. If so, I thank you all for setting me straight!
 
I've used both and don't notice a difference in grinding (stock removal) or the end knife. CR does't have the surface scales that HR does and i love that. The scales are sometimes really hard to get off without surface grinder.
Kelley
 
Just from my experience, even the CRA 1095 could be softer. It usually is only simple annealed, when it should be spheroidized annealed. I have burned up cobalt drill bits on the simple annealed 1095. Kevin Cashen could tell you better than I how to do that. I quit 1095 long ago. It can be a great steel, but requires too much attention to get it great. IMO. It is not HT friendly with simple methods, or quenchants. You are much better off using 1080, or 1084, unless you have the right stuff for 1095.
 
I had an enteresting conversation today with Aldo at the Mad Dwarf hammer-in. Probably more important than whether the 1095 is cold rolled annealed or hot rolled is the manganese content. A lower manganese level, sorry I can't quote exact levels, and the steel will be shallow hardening but with a higher manganese level and you can get through hardening at normal knife thicknesses.

Doug Lester
 
I always buy CRA1095 for my damascus because I don't have to worry about the scale causing problems in my welds. the chemical comp. should be the same rather it is hot or cold rolled.
 
Wayne Coe said:
I'm sorry guys:
Murph is correct HR stands for Hot Rolled
CR stands for Cold Rolled.

Now, Hot Rolled means that it was rolled when it was hot and the tolerancences are not real close.
Cold Rolled is Hot Rolled that has been run through the rolling mill a second time cold. This does several things. It breaks the mill scale off, it gets to stock to closer tolerances. ie 1/2". Hot Rolled is actually a little more than Cold Rolled and has mill scale. The 1/2" Cold Rolled is really 1/2" and has very square corners. Cold Rolled also is work hardened. It is actually harder than Hot Rolled only because of the work hardening. I suspect that the reason that Murph feels that it grinds "like butter" is because the mill scale is gone. The Mill Scale is harder than the actual metal.
You can recognize the difference because Cold Rolled will be brighter in color and in square or flat stock the corners are very crisp. With square or round stock a mike will show that the Cold Rolled is the actual size. Generally speaking Cold Rolled is more expensive than Hot Rolled.

I have heard discussions by blacksmiths that Cold Rolled is harder than Hot Rolled.... Not if you are forging it! Once you have brought it up to temperature the work hardening is gone.
Click to expand...

I agree 100% with your post Wayne :thumbup:. Unfortunatly, Murph was not comparing HR to CR... he was comparing HR to CRA. That "A" makes all the difference. The cold-rolled annealed 1095 that I buy is nice and soft because of the "A"nnealing... has no scale and is close to dimensional tolerances. The cat's meow. :)
 
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