2nd Knife Attempt Take 1

K

KB1SYV

Guest
Hey Guy's,

Someone who's input I value, told me to take some time off and read and look at different knives, read and look at different again. I don't know if I did it long enough, but I'm starting again anyway:D. I know it's going to happen and it did, I made a mistake. I know it's correctable, and before I move forward I wanted some input on how to correct it without making the plunges too shallow. I switched to actually doing the plunges by file, advice from Mace while at IG's, but I have a marke all the way to the spine on both sides. They are not that deep, so I know I can fix it. I just don't want a repeat of my first knife and lose too much metal. You will notice that the profile isn't done in the tang area. That's because I want to get the plunges and bevel right before I waste hours on the tang. Here are some pic's of what I'm talking about. Let me know if they are clear enough. Thanks Everyone!

Jeff

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Aside from the sucky pics, It doesn't look too bad. Did you start on the one you forged?
 
Hey Stabber,

Well I did say let me know if the pic's are okay:haha:

No, remember I forgot them at IG's. This is the other piece of O-1 I had. He is going to bring them to Mystic Sunday. I wouldn't want to start on those until I know what the hell I'm doing anyway.

Jeff
 
Okay, here are a couple much clearer pics of my situation:

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Stabber, even you would be proud...:D

Jeff
 
Are you draw filing and making the plunge line at the same time?
If you are thats why you are getting the line all the way to the spine.
One way you can stop this is to hold the file at more of an angle.

This I what I found to be the problem with cutting the plunges the same time as the bevels. thats why I cut my plunges with a round file first. To kind of set the bevel for draw filing.
 
No insult to you Ernie, because I hold your opinion in high esteem, but Mace suggested a way by filing in the plunge while beveling. I want to try all ideas and see what works best for me. Not draw filing, but filing perpendicular to the blade. Just like what you suggested, both ideas would work with someone who wasn't inept, but in doing what I did, I basically did the same thing again, I took the end of the plunge to the spine. It's not deep, I believe it's correctable, but I need advice on how to correct it before I continue.

Thanks,

Jeff
 
KB1SYV said:
No insult to you Ernie, because I hold your opinion in high esteem, but Mace suggested a way by filing in the plunge while beveling. I want to try all ideas and see what works best for me. Not draw filing, but filing perpendicular to the blade. Just like what you suggested, both ideas would work with someone who wasn't inept, but in doing what I did, I basically did the same thing again, I took the end of the plunge to the spine. It's not deep, I believe it's correctable, but I need advice on how to correct it before I continue.

Thanks,

Jeff
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Jeff, I took no offense. I was just stating my opinion!!!
I hope you would try any/and every why to get this done. My way is by no means the best but it does work for me!!


The best way I can think to correct the problem now would be to try flat sanding the marks out.
 
Ernie Swanson said:
Jeff, I took no offense. I was just stating my opinion!!!
I hope you would try any/and every why to get this done. My way is by no means the best but it does work for me!!


The best way I can think to correct the problem now would be to try flat sanding the marks out.
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Is there any way to do that without making the plunge more shallow?
 
Not really, Because you need to take material off the entire knife. You shouldnt have to go to much, depending on how deep those marks are.

You could try blending them in when you are hand sanding but that might/will show a shoulder there and that usually dont look good.

Hopefully someone with better ideas than me, or more experience chimes in here. Remember I am still a rookie with only 9 finished knives under my belt!
 
Hey Jeff , Stop where you are . You're going to be at the Mystic show in 3 days and a wake-up . Let us at the show see it , so bring it with you . Between all of us , you should have more answers than you need - or want . Bill
 
That sounds like a great idea!!! Now I can breathe a sigh of relief, I was sweating going at it tomorrow:D

thanks Bill,

Jeff


Bill T said:
Hey Jeff , Stop where you are . You're going to be at the Mystic show in 3 days and a wake-up . Let us at the show see it , so bring it with you . Between all of us , you should have more answers than you need - or want . Bill
Click to expand...
 
Ernie Is right make a flat sanding stick and start at 100 grit maybee 80 but I like 100 . I hated hand sanding and hand filling but love the end result. The machine I have now is like a miracle sander lol Sanding takes a long time just keep going up in small increments 100,150,220,320,400,500,600 ,1000 and then you might be doneI go to 3000 on the machine and some times now the buffer with white rouge or green. kellyw
 
Looking at the plunge depth at the spine, I don't think you'll have any problem bringing that back in if you flat-sand the tang of the knife to lower it's height in relation to the plunge cut. Works for me every time.

As a preemptive measure, put a dot at the top of the blank where you want the plunge to stop.....and then don't file past that point. You can always take off a hair more steel at the last minute, but adding it back on is a pain in the tookus!
 
I'm pretty sure that's what I'm going to have to do, but I'm going to wait until I get a consensus in person at the Mystic Show. Online advise is great, but advice from someone in person with your knife in their hands...priceless!

Jeff
 
Still waiting on pics of your broken file guide. If it broke where I think it broke, we can get it up and running in two shakes of a lamb's tail!

Been down this road a few times....
 
lol sorry T, I completely forgot about getting you those. Mace showed me how I could use a set of vise grips to use it again. Then it snapped on me again!!! I barely had any stress on it at all!!! Damn thing is useless now! I'll throw up a pic to show you it's out of lives.

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See, no hope...I gotta find a file guide though or I can't move forward.

Jeff

VaughnT said:
Still waiting on pics of your broken file guide. If it broke where I think it broke, we can get it up and running in two shakes of a lamb's tail!

Been down this road a few times....
Click to expand...
 
Broke in two places?!?!?! Wow, but still fixable to get you by until you can find some 1-2-3 blocks.

What you need to do is forget about putting the tension on the blade with that bolt.

Then, you slide the blade up until it's between the jaws at the loop. You have plenty of metal in that area to give you something to ride the file against. Use a small C-clamp to compress the jaws down onto the blade.

Or, you can "join" the large piece with the broken middle piece with a c-clamp, put your blade in and use another c-clamp to apply pressure. With that done, you can remove the first c-clamp but still have your top and bottom jaw reasonably aligned.

I would also recommend heating that loop up to relieve any tension it might have in it. If the temper wasn't done right, hence the snapping, it might snap again. Just keep a wet towel around the jaws so they don't lose hardness and hit the loop with a torch.
 
Since I'll be bringing my knife to Mystic for help troubleshooting my plunge issues, I thought I'd dress up the profile a little bit. To be honest, it came out way better than I thought it would. Maybe there's talent buried way way way way way deep down there and it somehow dribbled a little out:rolleyes::cool:

I still don't know what I'm going to do with the tang. I don't want to make it too thin if I cut in a finger guard some how. Well here are a couple pic's...Advice welcome and needed as alway's

Jeff

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Not sure if my terms are correct here, but I'll try to share my mistakes and how I've fixed them.

"Rolling" the plunge into and over the spine is really easy to do; I've noticed it most when trying to grind a nice full convex-bevel on a slack belt, but it can happen with any style bevel that goes close to the spine.

It's something that's not often addressed in books or tutorials, but by-golly it should be. I know darn well that me and Jeff aren't the only ones who've done this and had to fix it. It doesn't necessarily hurt the performance of the blade, but it sure looks ugly and unprofessional.

It can be fixed by getting the plunge/bevel right, despite "rollover", then removing metal from the tang and/or flats until the rolled-over part disappears. When this is done right, it looks like you meant it this way. You will end up with a blade that's thinner than you intended it to be.

But we all want to avoid this problem in the first place. It can be mind-numbingly frustrating to get a blade just-about-right, then realize you have to re-grind the whole thing to get rid of that divot in the spine.

As far as I know, the only way to avoid it is to be very VERY careful about the angle you're grinding/filing at, and check your work very often to see if you're getting too close to the spine.

Setting your plunge lines before beveling can be a big help in avoiding this problem.

Knifemaker Fred Rowe has developed and sells a bubble-jig that he says will help eliminate this mishap, and help you keep your grinds straight and even. I haven't used his jig, but I've read a heckuvalotta posts from people who do use it, and say it works great.

FWIW, I've watched Harvey Dean's DVD about flat-grinding many times. He is very well-known for the quality of his grinds; yet even he admits that this mistake sometimes happens to him, and he shows how to correct it.
 
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