Attachment Mod for KMG....

McClellan Made Blades

McClellan Made Blades

Well-Known Member
I was watching a YouTube video of Kyle Royer making a knife and he had the neatest attachment for his grinder, it allowed him to grind his blades length wise, like you do handsanding, has anyone see this? And does anyone know where to get one, I assume he made his, as he makes a lot of tools, I'm not sure if I have the know how to pull that one off, but it sure looked like a labor saver. Getting all the vertical lines out with the grinder and the ability to go through the grits horizontally would save me hours on each blade, if anyone has any info on this, I'd love to hear it, Thanks, Rex
 
I'm at work right now and YouTube is a no-no! But I'll see if I can find it tonight when I get home.

The way it was made, he had it mounted so the blade would be pointed upwards or towards the back of the machine, it looked like it did a nice job on plunge lines as well. I'm not sure what it would do to a distal taper, if you're not careful, I'm thinking it could wash it out, or it might put them in even better and easier! It looks like it would save so much time, for me just getting the deep scratches out would be huge. It basically looked like a flat platen with a bump which is where the plunge is, with the grinder running away from you as it normaly does, he laid the blade on the belt with the tip pointing toward the back of the machine, if I'm remembering this correctly. I may email him personaly and see if he can give me some insight on how he built it. He is a very nice guy, to go along with all of his incredible talent! Rex
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V6Dq3bGBlDQ

This video shows the mod at about 1:20. IF the belt is moving away from him, I think that it would be a great modification. I cannot tell what the direction of the belt is but if it is going in the normal direction there is a very big safety issue. If the tip of the blade ever got caught on the belt it would be flying back toward the grinder operator in a very fast and violent motion. I would personall not consider using that if the belt moves toward the operator. For erasing vertical grind scratches, buy one of tracy's 40 duro wheels and run your blade perpendicular to the scratches and it erases them very quickly.

Thanks

John
 
John,
It doesn't matter which way he is running his machine, I can make mine run away as it already is, I agree that if the blade tip got caught it would be bad, but it would be bad anyway, if you lost your grip. With the 40 Duro wheels, I understand they are softer, and take some time to get used to, but I can still see the possibilitity of hollowing out the blade. With this neat little add on it looks like you could not only take out the scratches but you can also put in the distal taper, and clean up the plunge lines, keep in mind that is the way it looks, I'm not saying that is a fact, it just looks like it would be good for those tasks. The scratches alone would speed up my work 10 fold! I'm so freakin slow finishing a blade it is ridicoulous!!! Being some what anal about scratches, and after progressing through the grits several times and still finding scratches and actually starting over with the first (50 grit) is a bit time consuming. I do believe I'm going to get away from the 36 grit belts, with my new Tire hammer coming, I'm hoping I will be able to learn how to forge the bevels in, and getting away the coarser grits will be a good thing.
 
Hey Rex, grab some Mobil 1 with some good paper and have fun. ....Thank you for getting rid of the blue text...my eyes are still burning! Just ribbin'.
 
GLWJ/CK said:
Hey Rex, grab some Mobil 1 with some good paper and have fun. ....Thank you for getting rid of the blue text...my eyes are still burning! Just ribbin'.
Click to expand...

Hey Dave,
I didn't mention that I DO use Mobile 1 when I do my hand sanding, BUT it doesn't do a whole lot for deep scratches, it does a great job at getting a finer finish a lot faster, we have to thank Mr. Frank Niro for that tip, that was a GOLDEN TIP!!! I worked a little while the other night on a blade that I Ht'd right before I had the heart attack, it was either bound and determined to get the best of me or I'm just not ready to get back to work, with 50 grit paper I still wasn't making any progress, granted that paper isn't my first choice of paper, I ran out of Rhinowet Redline in 50 grit, and picked up some 3M wet/dry, good paper but still not near as good as the Redline. I'll get back to it......eventually, I absolutely have no idea of my limitations right now, I do know I get tired extremely easy, I still have the "want to", just not the energy to go with it. Thanks Rex

BTW, I just changed from the royal blue to the Navy blue, when I post from work I usually don't take the time to dress it up, sorry if the royal was to intense, it looked fine on my screen.
 
I like the idea, but I have to wonder about excessive belt wear from the 90 degree bend it puts in the belt ....maybe, maybe not...what do you guys think?
 
Last edited:
zbq said:
I like the idea, but I have to wonder about excessive belt wear from the 90 degree bend it puts in the belt ....maybe, maybe not...what do you guys think?
Click to expand...

zbq,
I went back and studied the video, it looks like it could be easily done with Boss's rotating arm, it looks like if you mount a "good" platen on to it, meaning NOT a piece of angle iron. Possibly one of the Beaumont Platens could made to fit on it. The belts used would have to be a Y weight I think, the flimsy weighted belts that I hate so much, they have their purpose, but in Alabama's humidity they curl up like mad!

John,
After watching the video again, I noticed the sparks were being blown toward him, DON'T DO THAT, aside from the basic safety aspects of slinging a sharp knife straight toward your face at 200 mph, the constant spew of steel dust and sparks flying in your face are more than uncomfortable, basic eye protection may not stop these sparks from getting in your eyes, the constant barrage of sparks on cotton clothing could cause a spark, not likely, but possible. It's too easy to reverse any electric motor to turn the other way. That aside, this looks like a great tool for speeding up finishing time. Definitely one I'm going to pursue! I've been wanting the rotating platen, this looks like as good an excuse as any to go ahead and either build one or buy one. I was thinking that a horizontal grinder would do this very well, another tool I've wanted with so many benefits. I guess I'm like Chad Nichols, "Always one tool away from true happiness"! Rex
 
I made a horizontal platen like this that attaches to my flat platen right in place of the platen. I've hardly had a chance to use it yet but will say IMHO it shows GREAT promise for all the reasons mentioned ESPECIALLY in getting the radius of the plunges to be a perfect match.

I didn't go with an all out watercooled version like Brian Felhoelter but after more experimentation I may just go with an advanced design like his. I just whipped something up to play around with.

I'll run out to the shop and get a pic of it in a few and post back in a little while.

-Josh

Edited to say- I forgot my wife took the camera to work today so I'll get pics tonight while in the shop. Here's a link to some good reading on this subject-

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...made-attachment?highlight=water+cooled+platen
 
Last edited:
McClellan Made Blades said:
The scratches alone would speed up my work 10 fold! I'm so freakin slow finishing a blade it is ridicoulous!!! Being some what anal about scratches, and after progressing through the grits several times and still finding scratches and actually starting over with the first (50 grit) is a bit time consuming.
Click to expand...

Rex, why are you having to start back over again with the initial grit? Are you eliminating all the scratches from the previous grit before you proceed to the next (finer) grit?
 
McClellan Made Blades said:
The belts used would have to be a Y weight I think, the flimsy weighted belts that I hate so much, they have their purpose, but in Alabama's humidity they curl up like mad!

Rex
Click to expand...

Yeah, that dreaded humidity and its effects!

Speaking of geographical effects, I think I was able to get an answer to your basement question!
I did not want to throw this thread off track, so check yer PM.
 
rob45 said:
Rex, why are you having to start back over again with the initial grit? Are you eliminating all the scratches from the previous grit before you proceed to the next (finer) grit?
Click to expand...

Rob,
It seems I have an uncanny ability to miss scratches that I should have seen, I eventually do see them, once I get to higher grits, part of the problem in my shop is lighting, which will be solved once I'm done with the renovations. The improvemments I've made include pianted Gloss white walls, with new work benches, painted white, the floor- I put Behr Acrylic floor coating on, which should dull some of the brightness, from being thrown back upwards, (just my thinking, and I wanted a way to be able to keep the floor cleaner.) it's gray, not a dark gray. Next I plan to add (estimated) 10 to 12 double flourescent lights, over lapping them slightly. As you can see I'm sick of a dimly lit shop! I thought I had plenty of light before, but the fixtures (2) I acquired from my Bro-N-Law were used (and free), 2 of the lights went out in it almost immediatley, it was a 4 light fixture, covering about 12 feet of work space, it was great until the lights went out! I'm planning on 6 double lights to cover one 12 x12 side of the shop, the other side is 12 x 12 also, but that will be my forging area, I haven't decided how much light I want over there, I have decided I want to be able to cut the lights out if needed, it helps with watching hot steel and the colors of it.

I know I'm supposed to alternate sanding angles, but I hate it, I can get into a groove sanding 1 way, changing back and forth makes me extremley uncomfortable. I guess I should also point out that I have some physical limitations that makes bending at strange angles a problem. Not a good excuse, my best excuse is that when I can get in the groove, I get so involved in my work I literally feel NO pain! Until I have to get up!

I think getting away from the extremely harsh grits like 36 and 40, will make a big difference, until recently, (well, before HT-not heat treat, heart attack) I had just started getting to where I could forge in some of the bevels, not quite the way I was wanting, but getting it closer to where it would limit the amount of grinding I would have to do. The Tire Hammer is going to make it where I won't be grinding much at all, it's more than a labor saver for me, it's a joint saver!

I remember Ed Caffrey sharing a big tip with fiishing blades, he changed the backing of an orbital sander with Micarta, he said it made a huge difference in finishing time, I've thought about doing that, but I really like this KMG Mod, that really isn't much of a mod. It's really pretty simple, with a rotating platen. Something I've been wanting a while. And since I've got my plasma cutter on the way it should be fairly easy to build. Thanks Buddy, Rex
 
After grinding a couple hundred blades on a non-cooled platen, I made the watercooled version.

It makes a BIG difference.

Here's a video of me grinding a small blade on mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EzILrW8BQ0
[youtube]EzILrW8BQ0[/youtube]

I rough grind first traditionally, or in the case of this particular knife I was able to mill it.
Then I switch to this horizontal platen.

All real stock removal happens traditionally, you don't want to really remove much stock with this.

Except at the plunge.
You can move your plunges back a quarter inch if you want, and get them dead nuts too.

When done correctly, I can go from this grinder to finished hand satin in about 5 minutes on a 3-5" blade.

Belt does run toward you, as it's easier to control, and I seldom run faster than 30% on my KMG.
It just doesn't work well running away from you.
I have probably ground between 300 and 400 knives on mine now, and NEVER flung one, nor have I ever had a tip catch.
I am not running fast enough to create sparks, and actually remove very little material at all.
That all happens in a more traditional manner.

Belt life isn't great, but I use inexpensive AO belts, and generally get 2 - 3 knives out of one.
4 or 5 of these small knives.

I'd rather throw a couple of dollars at a belt than spend all that time hand sanding.

Besides, it's worth it for the plunges alone!
 
Last edited:
Fellhoelter,
I'm not able to see the video at work, but will check it out tonight, I have not heard of a watercooled platen, sounds like a great idea, as it would keep the blade cooler as well. Since I can't see the video, I don't know if the belt is actually getting wet, or how it works, if it does that would eliminate the sparks and the dust would be captured in the water, which would be awesome.

I think the chances of a belt grabbing the tip of a blade and actually slinging it is remote, BUT NOT IMPOSSIBLE! I remember someone a long time ago working on a miniture blade, it got away from him and got slung into is stomach, it did require a little surgery to remove it, I don't remember if that was a grinder or a buffer, either is possible. I've caught the tip of blades a time or 2, but it has never grabbed it away from me, but I have my grinder set to run away from me. Right now I don't have the luxury of a VFD on my grinder, so wide open is how I roll! With the Tire Hammer I'm hoping, actually it is my goal to be able to forge my blades to 90% complete, now that's pretty high as far as completion goes, but if I get close to that, I'll be all the better, I've never minded hand sanding, I kinda like it to be honest, but with all the latest investments, it's time for me to take my knife making to the next level, taking more of a business approach to it. In other words, it's time to start making some money! Which means I've got to increase production a lot!
Fortunatley for me I have an awesome wife that knows my knife making is not optional, it's a necessity. She has supported my habit from day 1, even encouraged me in a lot of the purchases I've made.
Can you explain how you built the watercooled platen, and the approximate cost? It does sound like it would help making a nicer finish.
BTW, have you ever tried the Sairon belts from Pop's knife supply? They are very good belts that last a while, and do give a pretty nice finish, even the lowest grit belts are'nt over 3 bucks, they only go from 36 to (I think) 120 grits, but 120 is my favorite grit, that is where I do the most of my work, it leaves a nice finish while still able to remove material, it does get hot with extended grinding, but with a watercooled platen and a VFD, it shouldn't matter.
Thanks Rex
 
Rex.
have you tried the taking of a black felt pencil and run it over the ground part of blade after you've ground with the second or third size belt you use and then after every following size? It can help spot what is going on and when.
I'm trying out another fluid for hand sanding - finishing. It gives better results than the Mobile 1 with the stainless steels like CPMS35VN I believe it's more effective with the carbon steels as well but want to test a bit more. I lam using it with the Rynowet sandpapers. Frank
 
Here's a couple pics of the platen I made up. I wanted to make something up with materials I had on hand and needed it to attatch to my flat platen tool arm.

008.jpg

006.jpg

005.jpg

004.jpg


Brian, Thanks for posting the video link ! AWESOME ! AND My apologies for mis-spelling your name in my first post !

Take care- Josh

Edited to say, I just slapped the platen on for a pic. If I put a little tension on the belt it does ride flat on the platen not raised up on the back side like it is in the pic :)
 
Last edited:
Frank,
Actually, I used to do that, but with a Sharpie. More of a way to get my lines to match up on each side than to make sure I was getting all of the deep scratches out. When I had my shop in order and knew where everything was, I have a piece of 1084 that I attached a piece of leather to, I wrap my Redline paper around it, witht the extra length on the sides of the steel it gives a lot of leverage for "handsanding". I really do know how to do this stuff, I was just looking for an easier, faster way of getting the same results, after last night, I will probably buy an orbital sander like Ed's and put the Micarta on it, I attempted to set my KMG up in a similar manner to what Kyle has in his video. All I did was pull the flat platen out further on the bottom and kinda pushed it back inward on the top, making it jut out a little at the bottom of platen, it may have worked better with a new glass liner, mine is a bit worn. Kyle makes it look a lot easier that it really is, and I would also like to point out that his machine is running the same as mine is! I guess because he had his platen up on top of the machine, it made me think the sparks were going the wrong way, because with normal grinding, the sparks will be shooting downward away from you.

When we got home last night we went to work, and got a lot done, I should be able to get some wiring done this weekend. And another trip to the scrap yard for more steel, for 3 more work benches. Plus any other goodies I can find, it's an exhausting process, but the end result will be worth all the effort, Oh and trip to Lowes, got to get more lights, wire and a few odds and ends. Whe I get done with it, I hope it will be state of the art....for Alabama at least! Redneck state of the art maybe? "Countrified state of the art knife making studio"?? Nah, how about a really nice, knife shop! That's my goal, BRIGHT and CLEAN! That's not expecting too much, is it? Kidding aside, it will be really nice, and once I get my side done, then on to getting the wife's side renovated....that's another story! Thanks, Rex

BTW, Frank, can't wait to hear about this new "liquid" you're using!!!! Your getting my hopes up!!!
 
Fellhoelter said:
After grinding a couple hundred blades on a non-cooled platen, I made the watercooled version.

It makes a BIG difference.

Here's a video of me grinding a small blade on mine.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_EzILrW8BQ0
Click to expand...

Thanks for the video Brian... very cool to see in action. It looks like your cooling block is fairly well sealed (no drips). What type of sealant did you use? Have you thought about some sort of "quick change" system for swapping to different radius leading edges?

Once again... very cool. :thumbup:

Erin
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top