Been a while but I'm back

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diverdale

Well-Known Member
So life got in the way and I didn't get a 2x72 after selling my Mustang....I got another little race car to tinker with. I have recently bout a 2 burner Devil Forge and made some mods to my "not" 2x72 sanders to hopefully get me along.

Recently ran into a great deal on some 1095 steel that I picked up but am afraid I can't properly heat treat it in my forge. I've read about the soak times and whatnot ... I've also seen folks say they've had success with a forge like mine. What are the odds of being able to properly harden 1095 in this thing? I have no issues putting it on the shelf and waiting until the point I either get it heat treated somewhere or I have the gear to do it right.
 
diverdale said:
So life got in the way and I didn't get a 2x72 after selling my Mustang....I got another little race car to tinker with. I have recently bout a 2 burner Devil Forge and made some mods to my "not" 2x72 sanders to hopefully get me along.

Recently ran into a great deal on some 1095 steel that I picked up but am afraid I can't properly heat treat it in my forge. I've read about the soak times and whatnot ... I've also seen folks say they've had success with a forge like mine. What are the odds of being able to properly harden 1095 in this thing? I have no issues putting it on the shelf and waiting until the point I either get it heat treated somewhere or I have the gear to do it right.
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Personally I'd save the 1095 for better heat control and get some 1084.
 
I agree with John for sure but i have a question before I say anything further. Are you a full time knifemaker? Do you sell knives? Are you a hobbyist maker?
 
Chris Railey said:
I agree with John for sure but i have a question before I say anything further. Are you a full time knifemaker? Do you sell knives? Are you a hobbyist maker?
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I am a hobbyist at best ... I've made a couple blades with decent success using the old paint can forge and a toaster oven. Ran across the Devil Forge at a justifiable price so I grabbed it. I really enjoy the process but have a lot to learn. I do a lot of woodworking and some metal fabrication (mainly on offroad vehicles) I have no delusions about selling any of my work.
 
OK, Then I will offer the following advice. John is 100% correct in what he is saying about the 1095 but he comes at things from a full time knife maker (and a damn good one) perspective. I see things more form the hobbyist/wanna be angle. You could spend a little money and add a thermocouple to your forge and gain a fair amount of temperature control. There are many makers who HT this way. @EdCaffreyMS has a very good video on his website on how to add a thermocouple to a forge. On the other hand, you could perform what is called a simple Heat Treat on the 1095 which in its simplest form is heating the steel to critical temperature and quench in heated oil. Then temper as you wish. 1095 will make a good knife when heat treated this way. It will not be the best the steel can be but I will tell you if you do it right you can make a knife that performs better than what you will buy in a big box store unless you spend quite a lot of money.

If you have the money to spend then 1084 is a better option as it responds to simple heat treat better than 1095. If you just want to use what you have and go with the 1095 ,then go make a knife. Just my opinion...Chris
 
Chris Railey said:
OK, Then I will offer the following advice. John is 100% correct in what he is saying about the 1095 but he comes at things from a full time knife maker (and a damn good one) perspective. I see things more form the hobbyist/wanna be angle. You could spend a little money and add a thermocouple to your forge and gain a fair amount of temperature control. There are many makers who HT this way. @EdCaffreyMS has a very good video on his website on how to add a thermocouple to a forge. On the other hand, you could perform what is called a simple Heat Treat on the 1095 which in its simplest form is heating the steel to critical temperature and quench in heated oil. Then temper as you wish. 1095 will make a good knife when heat treated this way. It will not be the best the steel can be but I will tell you if you do it right you can make a knife that performs better than what you will buy in a big box store unless you spend quite a lot of money.

If you have the money to spend then 1084 is a better option as it responds to simple heat treat better than 1095. If you just want to use what you have and go with the 1095 ,then go make a knife. Just my opinion...Chris
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Not trying to argue with you. I agree it’s doable for someone that knows what they’re doing in a PROPERLY Designed forge but those devils forges are horribly designed with terrible materials and downright dangerous in some aspects. I would stick with the 1084 for now and upgrade buy/build a forge as soon as possible

Ps: I will expand on what is dangerous about the Forge on my lunch break.
 
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Daniel Macina said:
Not trying to argue with you. I agree it’s doable for someone that knows what they’re doing in a PROPERLY Designed forge but those devils forges are horribly designed with terrible materials and downright dangerous in some aspects. I would stick with the 1084 for now and upgrade buy/build a forge as soon as possible
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Yeah I have never used a devil forge but I can harden 1095 with an Oxy/acetylene torch way harder than a knife blade needs to be. The steel does not care what gets it critical temperature just as long as it gets there. If you can hold at the correct temperature for about five minutes (for 1095) then so much the better. If the forge is unsafe for whatever reason then it should not be used period. For the purposes he listed above, 1095 with a simple HT will suffice unless he just wants to buy 1084 which would be better for simple HT.
 
Chris Railey said:
Yeah I have never used a devil forge but I can harden 1095 with an Oxy/acetylene torch way harder than a knife blade needs to be. The steel does not care what gets it critical temperature just as long as it gets there. If you can hold at the correct temperature for about five minutes (for 1095) then so much the better. If the forge is unsafe for whatever reason then it should not be used period. For the purposes he listed above, 1095 with a simple HT will suffice unless he just wants to buy 1084 which would be better for simple HT.
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I heat treated a piece of 1080B in that forge Saturday with no issues. I found it to be pretty well made. Not sure what is "wrong" with it. Thanks for the input. I have a couple more pieces of 1080B I can work on for now. Thanks for the info

Wish the local metal purveyors (Not big box stores) stocked more than mild steel. We have a Metals Supermarket and a Dillon Supply local here and neither deals in any forging steel.
 
The 1080 will also respond better to Simple HT than the 1095 so that is a good one too. Most of the people here will give you advice based on the absolute best way to accomplish a task but often its more expensive than a hobby maker making knives for his her own use can afford or is willing to spend. Now if you were going to move into trying to advance where you could make good enough knives to sell I would not use the 1095. I do sell some knives and I would never make one from 1095 using simple HT and sell it because I know there would some performance left on the table. But for learning, experimenting, and personal use the 1095 will make a knife. There is a lot of HT information on the internet about 1095 and other steels and if you are interested in learning more about the qualities of steel and how they affect a knife then I would start at @Kevin R. Cashen website he has a lot of free information. Be careful though, the mysteries of steel are addicting...
 
Chris Railey said:
Yeah I have never used a devil forge but I can harden 1095 with an Oxy/acetylene torch way harder than a knife blade needs to be. The steel does not care what gets it critical temperature just as long as it gets there. If you can hold at the correct temperature for about five minutes (for 1095) then so much the better. If the forge is unsafe for whatever reason then it should not be used period. For the purposes he listed above, 1095 with a simple HT will suffice unless he just wants to buy 1084 which would be better for simple HT.
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I dont take issue with your general point, or this post really.....

Just wanted to say an overheated blade could seem EXTREMELY hard but that could be misleading. It says nothing about the possible (likely) horrendous internal condition that could lead to a very poor knife.

For the record, I don't dispute that one could make a perfectly serviceable adequate knife with 1095 and simple equipment, with just a bit of knowledge and care.

If money and time weren't an issue, I'd still use 1084 with basic equipment. But if one was set on 1095, it could be done, though you might leave s bit of performance left on the table.
 
I heat treated a piece of 1080B in that forge Saturday with no issues. I found it to be pretty well made. Not sure what is "wrong" with it.
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This is a little "aside" from the main topic, but Daniel is spot on about those forges. Those forges are VERY poorly designed, and I'm just going to come out and say it.....those forges are a death trap waiting to spring. I've seen them in person, and frankly, the safest use for one is a boat anchor.

Why? Mainly because that is not propane/gas hose that comes on those forges.....it is AIR HOSE material, and propane slowly destroys it, until one day it breaks..... very likely with the forge running. Other aspects that make these forges a very poor choice for forging carbon/alloy (knife) steels, is 1.... square design. The first ingredient for uneven heating. 2. Burners that enter at 90 degrees. In this case from the top, so that further compounds #1. 3. With the burners directed at whatever work piece is placed into the forge.... hot and cold spots.... directly ON the work piece. That makes it impossible to obtain even heating no matter what you are trying to accomplish. This is just one more company, who knows little or nothing about Bladesmithing, or the proper tools for it, trying to prey on the popularity of knifemaking. Frankly, it doesn't matter what steel you use, with that forge, you will achieve spotty results.....at the very best.

Not trying to ruin your day, but I'd rather be talking TO you, then about you.... as in, "we had a guy on the forums who used one of those forges..... and blew himself up!" Just sayin.
 
J. Doyle said:
I dont take issue with your general point, or this post really.....

Just wanted to say an overheated blade could seem EXTREMELY hard but that could be misleading. It says nothing about the possible (likely) horrendous internal condition that could lead to a very poor knife.

For the record, I don't dispute that one could make a perfectly serviceable adequate knife with 1095 and simple equipment, with just a bit of knowledge and care.

If money and time weren't an issue, I'd still use 1084 with basic equipment. But if one was set on 1095, it could be done, though you might leave s bit of performance left on the table.
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Exactly. I did not go into hardening and breaking test pieces to view internal structure and how to correct for coarse or jacked up grain because that comes with time and study and I really did not intend to type a long reply. If he made a knife and it broke under light use then if he wanted to know why he needs to study steel. That is why I suggested Kevin's site very good info there.
 
OK sorry forgot to come back to this yesterday. I have never owned a Devils Forge but I went to a buddys shop that did have one and it was the worst forge I have ever seen. The “ Insulation“ was nothing more then hard Fire bricks that didn’t even seem to be particularly good quality in a very thin steel shell that’s going to warp like crazy the first time it gets heated. There was some sort of K whool knockoff on the doors that was not covered by anything so all those nasty fibers are going to be getting in the air. The burners were a terrible design and constructed from cheap materials like everything else. The worst thing was though the “propane line“ was a AIR HOSE That was held with nothing more than radiator clamps. This was a while back so I hope they have made those to where they’re at least not a death trap but they really are to be ashamed of themselves forever marketing that, they’re going to get someone killed.
 
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