Beginner Precautions

[EdCaffreyMS]

I hesitated to post this, but several encounters have lead me to do so..... this past week I've had phone calls from several individuals asking for my advice on forges to buy. The forges these folks asked about are ones I've never heard of, and the best I can determine, these are people who are selling forges on the web, who have just started out, and I can only assume they are jumping on the Forged in fire bandwagon. Most of these forges are very poorly thought out designs, that range from useless to down right dangerous! One of the designs even has a copper gas line, and a needle valve affixed directly to the exterior body of the forge! (That's nothing more than a bomb waiting to go off!) PLEASE! IF YOU ARE NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT FORGES, FIND AND ASK SOMEONE WHO IS! AND....TAKE THEIR ADVICE. I would much rather be talking TO YOU, then ABOUT YOU!

Another area that has come to my attention is etching Damascus..... I had an email this week where the individual said he is using a mix of Muriatic acid and Clorox Bleach as an etchant for damascus!! ...... he said "I saw it on YouTube"....... frankly I'm surprised the person isn't dead! AGAIN, IF YOU'RE NOT KNOWLEDGEABLE ABOUT SUCH THINGS, FOR HEAVEN'S SAKE FIND AND ASK SOMEONE WHO IS BEFORE YOU DO IT!

 

[Ben Sellers]

Thank you. This is good information, particularly as most beginners are working in their garage or near their house. An accident involving fire, explosions, or adverse chemical reactions would endanger our families as well. That said, I think knife making has an inherent risk to it that can be mitigated by common sense, experience, good quality well maintained equipment,and ppe.

I have a question related to this post and one from weeks ago. In that post it was mentioned that dust collection systems, particularly when used for certain metals and wood dust are dangerous. While i don’t have a dust collection system, I do clean up steel dust and wood dust using a shop vac. Does this have the same fire/explosion risk as a dust collection system? Thanks
Ben

 

[bladegrinder]

I'm glade to see you write that Ed, I've worked for a natural gas company that also sells propane for 21 years now, got burnt a couple times, seen a couple houses blown up, a couple CO cases but in the last couple years what I've seen people doing on some forums related to knife making is some of the most dangerous stuff I've ever seen.

First off, I don't thing everyone takes into account the amount of CO a forge can put out. I've seen pictures of forges with the fuel lines pieced together with all sorts of pipe and tubing. and then I see pictures of forges with propane tanks a mere few feet away. I would think that if anything were to happen, the first thing an insurance company is going to look for is if that forge was UL listed, which of coarse their not, so they'll tell you your out of luck.

It kills me to see what some people are doing in their garages in suburbia. you can look up propane explosions on you tube and they'll show the reality of what it's capable of in sloppy setups. and it ain't pretty.

I'm sorry to say this but I think in the near future were going to start hearing about fires or explosions related to forges on knife forums. I also sorry to say this...I think it may have a direct correlation to 'Forged in Fire'.
maybe it's just me but I can see some armchair knifemaker watching that show thinking, 'if he can do that so can I'.
next their out cutting up a Freon tank or what have you and rigging up a propane tank to it...crazy...and scary, especially if you have a house full of people and close neighbor's

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

I have a question related to this post and one from weeks ago. In that post it was mentioned that dust collection systems, particularly when used for certain metals and wood dust are dangerous. While i don’t have a dust collection system, I do clean up steel dust and wood dust using a shop vac. Does this have the same fire/explosion risk as a dust collection system? Thanks

In the majority of cases with dust collection fires, it's due to the dust collection systems..... those that have receivers mounted in a "catch pan" fashion at machines...... the fires usually occur because the system has combustible dust of some type in the "pipes" or the cloth collection bag at the unit itself.... then unthinking, and individual grinds something that produces sparks..... those sparks going down the "pipes" is just like you or I blowing on a ember to get a fire started..... times 10. Even the so called "industrial" dust collection systems that contain "spark arrestors" don't ensure safety..... I have a friend who spent $7K on one, and grinds a lot of titanium...... the spark arrestor failed to stop titanium sparks, thankfully, it only destroyed the spark arrestor and about 10" of piping before he caught it/ put it out. If you're cleaning up with a shop vac, the risk is still there, but it's greatly lessened if you are thoughtful and don't try to suck up stuff right away.....especially steel/metal dust.

It kills me to see what some people are doing in their garages in suburbia

The main reason for the warning on the forges was that I went and looked at the outfit that was selling them.....OMG! Who in their right mind would attach COPPER tubing, carrying propane, directly to the outside of a forge body? Propane ignites around 900F....... and it's very common for the exterior of poorly made forges (which these certainly are) to easily exceed that. All I could think was "You just can't fix STUPID".

 

[Doug Lester]

We've already had posts about fires caused by forges. In upstate New York there was one incident that involved the loss of several building before the fire department could get the fire out. Carbon monoxide poisoning is also a danger that is also overlooked by those who don't know what they're dealing with.

Doug