Can't open first folder with thumb stud

Justin Presson

Justin Presson

Well-Known Member
Hey guys as you know I'm working on my first frame lock. I'm down to getting this thing fit up. My problem now is I can not open the thing with the thumb stud. Not sure if my detent is to strong or my geometry is not right and I can't get the leverage. I also just cut in my lock and got it to lock up but its a bit sticky.

Any and all help is appreciated!
Thanks in advance.
Justin

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How far is your detent ball sticking out of your liner?

This is my first suspicion.

I can't see anything wrong with the placement of the stud, just from looking at the picture.

Secondly, how much spring tension do you have with your lock? If the blade was removed from the handle/frame, how far over to the other scale would the lock naturally go?

It's probably one or a combination of both of these things.
 
I will double check later when back in the shop but I set my washer over the top of the detent ball and pressed it in using the washer as my stop.
The spring goes over about the width of the Ti lock face if that makes sense.
 
I would also say as Mr. Doyle did that it's probably the detent ball out just a touch too much. Could it be that the pivot itself is too tight? Did you drop a washer?
 
I checked my detent ball and it is just slightly proud of the width of my bronze washer. Also I had forgotten to go back like Frank told me and mill out more of my lock relief as it is pretty dang stiff. I'm going to try these two things and report back.
Thanks guys
 
I agree with Frank and John. It's most likely that the detent ball is a little too proud which will cause the lock to bind and the blade rotates since it is wider than the thickness of the washer. It's an easy fix to press the ball in a little further, or most of the time I will grind a little bit of material off of the back side of the lock bar.
 
Something that came to my mind is...... is the pivot hole square and and parallel? Both in the blade and the scales? Did you ream the holes. Sounds to me like the pivot MIGHT be very slightly "cocked" and causing the blade to internal rub/catch.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
Something that came to my mind is...... is the pivot hole square and and parallel? Both in the blade and the scales? Did you ream the holes. Sounds to me like the pivot MIGHT be very slightly "cocked" and causing the blade to internal rub/catch.
Click to expand...
As far as I can tell Ed, I mean I'm not working with the best equipment but I did ream all holes.
 
Justin..... I don't know if you're far enough in your folder building experience to hear this.....or even care, but detents and relief are two of the biggest keys in making the action of a folder "slick". Personally, for framelock folders, I leave between .018-020" of the detent ball exposed (sticking out). On a framelock you don't have to worry about lock relief.

On Linerlock designs, I leave .012-.018" of the detent exposed (sticking out). The way I accomplish this is that I have a set of feeler gauges, each with a #52 hole drilled in it (for 1/16" detent). When I place the detent, I place the detent ball on the pre-drilled hole in the lockbar....then lay the feeler gauge hole over the ball, then press it in....this is all done on the arbor press. For steel detents you could also do it with a vise or hammer....but I use ceramic detents, and the vice or hammer will sometimes leave me with a tiny pile of detent ball dust. :) (either crush or shatter the detent ball)

Another, often overlooked aspect of folders is the actual detent hole on the blade, and the size/depth. Personally, I use a #54 drill for that..... I was going to try to explain it....but suspect all I would do is waste 1/2 a page and confuse you. :) I'm gona put a note on my list of videos TO DO......how I drill and place the detent on folders. :)
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
Justin..... I don't know if you're far enough in your folder building experience to hear this.....or even care, but detents and relief are two of the biggest keys in making the action of a folder "slick". Personally, for framelock folders, I leave between .018-020" of the detent ball exposed (sticking out). On a framelock you don't have to worry about lock relief.

On Linerlock designs, I leave .012-.018" of the detent exposed (sticking out). The way I accomplish this is that I have a set of feeler gauges, each with a #52 hole drilled in it (for 1/16" detent). When I place the detent, I place the detent ball on the pre-drilled hole in the lockbar....then lay the feeler gauge hole over the ball, then press it in....this is all done on the arbor press. For steel detents you could also do it with a vise or hammer....but I use ceramic detents, and the vice or hammer will sometimes leave me with a tiny pile of detent ball dust. :) (either crush or shatter the detent ball)

Another, often overlooked aspect of folders is the actual detent hole on the blade, and the size/depth. Personally, I use a #54 drill for that..... I was going to try to explain it....but suspect all I would do is waste 1/2 a page and confuse you. :) I'm gona put a note on my list of videos TO DO......how I drill and place the detent on folders. :)
Click to expand...
Ed I'm always glad to hear what ya have to say and always appreciate the advice. I definitely care, this is how I learn. If I don't make mistakes and ask questions I will bang my head against the wall when something doesn't work.
A video would be great! I plan on making another framelock, possibly flipper after this one so look forward to any input.

Now if I can manage to grind the blade without jacking it up, I can get this baby done before Christmas.

Ed, another question I thought of while I type this.
I'm going to sandblast the blade and ti handles. I would assume I need to mask off the area the washers will be, plug my pivot holes and maybe protect the lock face. Anything else I should be worried about?

JP
 
Anywhere there is "contact" of moving parts should be masked off before blasting..... where the washers contact, the detent track on the blade, the lockbar face, the lock on the blade....anywhere there is contact between moving parts.

I generally take the contact surfaces of washers/frames to 2000 grit before final assembly.

I'll see what I can do about a short video that shows some of the "things" I find critical when building folders.
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
Justin..... I don't know if you're far enough in your folder building experience to hear this.....or even care, but detents and relief are two of the biggest keys in making the action of a folder "slick". Personally, for framelock folders, I leave between .018-020" of the detent ball exposed (sticking out). On a framelock you don't have to worry about lock relief.

On Linerlock designs, I leave .012-.018" of the detent exposed (sticking out). The way I accomplish this is that I have a set of feeler gauges, each with a #52 hole drilled in it (for 1/16" detent). When I place the detent, I place the detent ball on the pre-drilled hole in the lockbar....then lay the feeler gauge hole over the ball, then press it in....this is all done on the arbor press. For steel detents you could also do it with a vise or hammer....but I use ceramic detents, and the vice or hammer will sometimes leave me with a tiny pile of detent ball dust. :) (either crush or shatter the detent ball)

Another, often overlooked aspect of folders is the actual detent hole on the blade, and the size/depth. Personally, I use a #54 drill for that..... I was going to try to explain it....but suspect all I would do is waste 1/2 a page and confuse you. :) I'm gona put a note on my list of videos TO DO......how I drill and place the detent on folders. :)
Click to expand...
Looking forward to the videos!

Sent from my SM-G928T using Tapatalk
 
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