epoxy
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Bill Hubbell
KNIFE MAKER
Hi Vern
"ps : please tell me why i get all these add when i post."
- do you mean the advertising that shows up on your page? I believe that helps to pay for the expenses of keeping this forum running. Right, guys? If I remember correctly from when I signed up, you could opt to donate/pay, maybe 20 bucks, to help with expenses, and then the ads wouldn't show up. I think there were also some advantages like more server space allotted for your pictures. At least that's my take- but I likely didn't grasp all the details. I chose the cheap route and have been ignoring the ads. Someone correct me if that's inaccurate.
I'm not qualified to answer the epoxy question. I've been using name-brand, like Locktite, trusting quality, in usually 60 minute set time to give me plenty of time to calmly assemble. The PSI ratings I've seen led me to believe I've been safe. but...
I'll be interested to see other's response on the epoxy (and the ads)
Take Care,
Bill
"ps : please tell me why i get all these add when i post."
- do you mean the advertising that shows up on your page? I believe that helps to pay for the expenses of keeping this forum running. Right, guys? If I remember correctly from when I signed up, you could opt to donate/pay, maybe 20 bucks, to help with expenses, and then the ads wouldn't show up. I think there were also some advantages like more server space allotted for your pictures. At least that's my take- but I likely didn't grasp all the details. I chose the cheap route and have been ignoring the ads. Someone correct me if that's inaccurate.
I'm not qualified to answer the epoxy question. I've been using name-brand, like Locktite, trusting quality, in usually 60 minute set time to give me plenty of time to calmly assemble. The PSI ratings I've seen led me to believe I've been safe. but...
I'll be interested to see other's response on the epoxy (and the ads)
Take Care,
Bill
Where the ads show up depends - there is usually only 1 ad per page, so it there is only 1 post, then the ad will appear in that post. I think typically the ad appears in the last post.
Yes, the ad "helps" pay for the forum - The Boss does a great job here, and footed all the expenses himself for a long time. The ads came to be only in the last year... "IF" I remember correctly. Boss only gets paid when you're interested enough in the ad to click on it to the page from the ad. Also, the ad you see are usually different than the ads I see - the ad agency watches what you view on other pages, what's in your email, things you've purchased or looked at, and that will trigger what ads you see - for the most part anyway. Last week I looked at something new for me, then started seeing ads for similar items on webpages.
On the epoxy - G/Flex is one of the good epoxies that seem to have a good following. There are a couple versions, 650 and 655. The 650 is a "thinner" (less viscous) which is still pretty thick. The 655 has a thickener agent added to make it more thick. I use the 650 and if it needs thicker, I just ad a bit of cab-o-sil which is the usual thickening agent used.
Ken H>
Yes, the ad "helps" pay for the forum - The Boss does a great job here, and footed all the expenses himself for a long time. The ads came to be only in the last year... "IF" I remember correctly. Boss only gets paid when you're interested enough in the ad to click on it to the page from the ad. Also, the ad you see are usually different than the ads I see - the ad agency watches what you view on other pages, what's in your email, things you've purchased or looked at, and that will trigger what ads you see - for the most part anyway. Last week I looked at something new for me, then started seeing ads for similar items on webpages.
On the epoxy - G/Flex is one of the good epoxies that seem to have a good following. There are a couple versions, 650 and 655. The 650 is a "thinner" (less viscous) which is still pretty thick. The 655 has a thickener agent added to make it more thick. I use the 650 and if it needs thicker, I just ad a bit of cab-o-sil which is the usual thickening agent used.
Ken H>
Dennis Morland
KNIFE MAKER
I have used G flex from West systems. If you cannot find it - look at marine shops.
I have also used K&G epoxy.
Both have worked out well for me. I will not change, if I do not have to.
DeMo
I have also used K&G epoxy.
Both have worked out well for me. I will not change, if I do not have to.
DeMo
LobosStyle Blades
Well-Known Member
It depends on what you're using the epoxy for. I use a variety of epoxies in my work. None of actually gluing scales to a full tang blade. For that I use Loc-tite 326 with the primer 7649. It's an awesome hold within a few minutes to keep working (though I generally wait at least 2hrs just to be safe). Loc-tite is really expensive, but worth it IMHO. For certain applications I'll use JB Weld for hidden tangs as it seems to hold better without expansion due to temperatures.
As for epoxies I like Bondo fiberglass resin for my micarta since it's cheap and I can get it at Home Depot. It does have a amber tint to it, but with paper micarta, I can still polish it nicely for a great shine. It doesn't exactly obtain the same finish with cloth like linen or canvas, but still provides a nice result. For fabrics I'd recommend West Systems epoxies though it is considerably more expensive.
If you plan on doing casing of any sort, Alumilite Clear is awesome and finishes with a great clear color and can easily be polished. The only drawback is that I have not had any luck in the process without a pressure pot. The curing process tends to get bubbles that I've yet to eliminate without pressure.
Just my take on it. May have more in depth, technical input.
As for epoxies I like Bondo fiberglass resin for my micarta since it's cheap and I can get it at Home Depot. It does have a amber tint to it, but with paper micarta, I can still polish it nicely for a great shine. It doesn't exactly obtain the same finish with cloth like linen or canvas, but still provides a nice result. For fabrics I'd recommend West Systems epoxies though it is considerably more expensive.
If you plan on doing casing of any sort, Alumilite Clear is awesome and finishes with a great clear color and can easily be polished. The only drawback is that I have not had any luck in the process without a pressure pot. The curing process tends to get bubbles that I've yet to eliminate without pressure.
Just my take on it. May have more in depth, technical input.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
Personally, I'm for Acraglas. I buy the "shop kit" which is 28oz of resin, and 7oz hardener. About 6 years into my knifemaking career, I learned about "epoxies" the hard way. Prior to that I had used mostly Devcon "2-ton", and just assumed it would be good forever.
I started getting calls from clients who were saying "The handle on my knife is coming loose." I ended up rehandling a number of knives, but not before I did some serious research on "epoxy"..... long story short, I learned that the majority of 2-part epoxies are engineered to only last 5-7 years....then they chemically break down. At first I found that appauling, but after a phone conversatioin with a chemist for "one" of the epoxy producers, who told me.... "My job depends on this company selling epoxy.....I'm certainly not going to engineer an expoxy that lasts forever!" ... I suppose if you look at from that point of view, it makes sense.
Where longevity is concerned, nothing tops Acraglas.... 10 year shelf life, and guarunteed 50 year hold life. Next in line is West Systems Marine epoxy, with a 5 year shelf life, and a 30 year hold life. I did some testing on my own, and found that with proper prep, I could "glue" a hidden tang handle on with Acraglas, and once cured, I could bust the handle material with a hammer, but the "wad" of acraglas would still be on the tang. I could chip it with a cold chisel, but couldn't break it off with a hammer. That, and the hold life has caused me to stay with acraglas ever since. I suspect sooner or later something "better" will come along, but I've not seen it yet.
I was a "tester" for West systems G-flex, personally I did not like it. Its too thick for use on hidden tangs, and on full tangs it always left a small, visible "glue line", which varied based on the type/color of handle material.
In the end, I suspect that had I not had those "loose handle" incidents, I probably would have never thought twice about the "glue" I was using, but I view it as a blessing in disguise, in that its likely saved me a lot of heartache through the years.
I started getting calls from clients who were saying "The handle on my knife is coming loose." I ended up rehandling a number of knives, but not before I did some serious research on "epoxy"..... long story short, I learned that the majority of 2-part epoxies are engineered to only last 5-7 years....then they chemically break down. At first I found that appauling, but after a phone conversatioin with a chemist for "one" of the epoxy producers, who told me.... "My job depends on this company selling epoxy.....I'm certainly not going to engineer an expoxy that lasts forever!" ... I suppose if you look at from that point of view, it makes sense.
Where longevity is concerned, nothing tops Acraglas.... 10 year shelf life, and guarunteed 50 year hold life. Next in line is West Systems Marine epoxy, with a 5 year shelf life, and a 30 year hold life. I did some testing on my own, and found that with proper prep, I could "glue" a hidden tang handle on with Acraglas, and once cured, I could bust the handle material with a hammer, but the "wad" of acraglas would still be on the tang. I could chip it with a cold chisel, but couldn't break it off with a hammer. That, and the hold life has caused me to stay with acraglas ever since. I suspect sooner or later something "better" will come along, but I've not seen it yet.
I was a "tester" for West systems G-flex, personally I did not like it. Its too thick for use on hidden tangs, and on full tangs it always left a small, visible "glue line", which varied based on the type/color of handle material.
In the end, I suspect that had I not had those "loose handle" incidents, I probably would have never thought twice about the "glue" I was using, but I view it as a blessing in disguise, in that its likely saved me a lot of heartache through the years.
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West Systems Marine epoxy has a bond life of 30 yrs? WOW - hate to hear that. I guess my old boat with epoxy repairs I did in 1985 is about ready to fall apart? I've sent emails to West and Raka epoxy companies to see if I can get some statement from them on epoxy bond life.
Ed, I have GREAT respect for your knowledge in knife making and knowledge in general. BUT - I just have a hard time with this 30 yr bond life for West epoxies. Folks build boats to last a lifetime and to pass on to kids and grandkids. The boat I lived on for over 25 yrs was launched in 1964 and is still going strong. I realize polyester resin was used in construction rather than epoxy, but in all my years in marine environment, I never heard anyone even concerned about bond life of epoxy or polyester. The only comments were "built for generations". Maybe we were all wrong?
Respectfully,
Ken H>
Ed, I have GREAT respect for your knowledge in knife making and knowledge in general. BUT - I just have a hard time with this 30 yr bond life for West epoxies. Folks build boats to last a lifetime and to pass on to kids and grandkids. The boat I lived on for over 25 yrs was launched in 1964 and is still going strong. I realize polyester resin was used in construction rather than epoxy, but in all my years in marine environment, I never heard anyone even concerned about bond life of epoxy or polyester. The only comments were "built for generations". Maybe we were all wrong?
Respectfully,
Ken H>