File Guard when Grinding

[izafireman]

I am going to try my hand at freehand grinding on the 10 inch hollow wheel. I am also going to try with the file guard clamped onto the knife.

When I run the belt towards it to do the plunge do I finish just in front of the file guide of bump the belt lightly into the guide?

Thanks in advance

 

[Jason Volkert]

I have never done it with a wheel. But on the flat platen I will go tell the file guide hits the side of the platen. Doing it on a spinning wheel might be totally different. I would think the wheel might catch it and become dangerous. But like I said I have never done it

 

[Owl]

I use a file guide when doing hollow grinds on a 10 inch wheel.
Yes, I lightly bump up against the file guide to set the plunge.
It works very well, just like with a flat platen.
Keep a firm grip and keep your elbows locked in at your sides.

 

[izafireman]

Thanks guys, it is actually as I was thinking then but I wasn't sure of how it would translate to the steel where the two steels meet as such.
I am guessing though that with the hogging grits to keep a few mm's back from the face of the guide and 'creep' it to the guide in the final grits.
Many thanks
Pete

 

[Nick Riggi]

I have been doing alot of hollow grinds on a 8 inch wheel- I do use the file guide on the blade and what I do is just hang the belt off 1/16 of an inch or so on either side-- this allows for the belt to contact the inside of the guide. That way there is no "catching" with the wheel.

 

[izafireman]

Ok here is where I got to just now on a 60 grit belt which I started with. Do I take the grind off the back of the spine as I’m doing here or should I leave a flat area at the top. Oh and I’m just grinding to a centre line, that’s my only reference point.
i have to say I found doing just this but a very natural feeling process and could easily see where I need to tilt the blank back and forth to walk the grind.
Hardest part for me is knowing if I’ve gone to deep with the hollow high up and running over the centre line when I chase the grind back down if that makes sense.

 

[Nick Riggi]

I always leave some flat at the top of my grinds- I just like the look of it

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

I always leave some flat at the top of my grinds- I just like the look of it

DITTO!

Also, it's always a good practice to leave a given about ON the grind until after heat treat. Exactly how much is up to you.....but always remember this.... You can always take metal off if needed.....but once gone, you can NEVER put it back. What's that mean? It means leave way more material prior to heat treat then you think you should.

 

[izafireman]

I forgot to say I grind in the fully hardened state so with that in mind is it ok to take a grind to the top?

also when you say to leave material at the top is there any rule of thumb as to the depth you would leave ?
This blank won’t for selling but it’s for someone to try making their first knive from, they just want an Elmax blank to make a small knife , hence I found this wee blank which had been heat treated.

I think I was a tad mesmerised grinding it and just let the grind wander to high if I’m honest .

Many thanks

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

The amount left at the top of a grind is personal preference.... or more accurately, what the customers/clients expect it to be. I've found that even something that seems so minor as how high a grind line goes on a blade....and more importantly, the evenness side to side will catch a clients attention instantly!

My bad on telling you to leave material..... I made a assumption that it wasn't heat treated...... and we all know that "assume" makes an a$$ of U and Me!

 

[izafireman]

The amount left at the top of a grind is personal preference.... or more accurately, what the customers/clients expect it to be. I've found that even something that seems so minor as how high a grind line goes on a blade....and more importantly, the evenness side to side will catch a clients attention instantly!

My bad on telling you to leave material..... I made a assumption that it wasn't heat treated...... and we all know that "assume" makes an a$$ of U and Me!

I probably should have said it was hardened ..

 

[Nick Riggi]

here are a few recent examples of the general style and height grinds I like on a deep hollow

 

[izafireman]

here are a few recent examples of the general style and height grinds I like on a deep hollow


View attachment 70873View attachment 70874

Very nice and thanks for posting. I see the way you do is I have done before which means a good contrast in the scratch lines.

My main issue is where exactly to start the grind as I cannot find a video that explains.

Do I start at the very edge , grind the edge to near the scribe line then walk the grind back or lower down the blank and walk the grind up and down the blank? I have done this before but I end up losing the wheel locking onto the knife and the hollow grind looks wavy, tad frustrating as such small imperfections,

 

[Nick Riggi]

I start low and grind all the way two within a mil or two of my scribe line. Then slowly work up to it with higher grits.

 

[bladegrinder]

Here is an example of where I try to bring my hollow grinds to. this was done on a 12" wheel, the larger the wheel, the higher you can go with the grind on thinner blades.
Like Nick said, I run my belt with about 1/16" run-out off the wheel, you especially want to do that if your using a file guide. you don't want the side of your wheel touching anything, you'll end up with a wonky groove right at the edge of your wheel.

 

[izafireman]

Thanks...Yes I let the belt hang over. My biggest issue is that the wheel feed back seems to change from knife to knife in that sometimes the blade feels like it is locked in place , other times it doesn't, kinda hard to explain. This is also what I mean when I ask where to initially make contact with the blade when it is presented to the wheel.

I will 'crack' this, just practice.

Thanks

Here is an example of where I try to bring my hollow grinds to. this was done on a 12" wheel, the larger the wheel, the higher you can go with the grind on thinner blades.
Like Nick said, I run my belt with about 1/16" run-out off the wheel, you especially want to do that if your using a file guide. you don't want the side of your wheel touching anything, you'll end up with a wonky groove right at the edge of your wheel.

.

 

[izafireman]

I jus found a 'finger rest' which I got with my grinder, not sure exactly how to set it up but if I suss it are these any good or is it best to learn total free hand?

 

[izafireman]

These are three hollows I did earlier, in the year only two were freehand though, wish I have stuck at I as like starting again. I think my issues with the one a few days ago was not 'owning the knife grinder and let it own me ' I also rolled the blade back n forth to much ;

 

[bladegrinder]

Those grinds look good iza, and so do the knives as a whole. as for free handing, in my opinion that's what you should keep doing. I don't want to stir the pot here with folks that use jigs and guides because I've seen beautiful grinds using them but one way to look at it is if you have someone in your shop looking at a knife you just finished with a jig and is ready to order one right there...but, he wants the blade up swept with a higher grind line, will the particular jig your using give you the confidence to tell him 'no problem'?

The thing with learning freehand is that one day you'll be able to just stroll up to your grinder and confidently start grinding out a knife. and if you screw it up in the beginning, halfway through or towards the end, you'll also feel confident that you can make the proper corrections and in the end your knife will have real nice grind lines. sounds easy right haha !

The way I see it, learning to grind, your going to trash knives no matter how you make them so it's up to the individual on how they want to go about trashing them. you can get good with a jig or you can get good with your hands and skills.

As for the height of the grind, I strongly agree with Ed, it's a personal choice but the lines have GOT to be symmetrical on both sides. if your set up at a show and those lines aren't perfect you'll lose sales, and people at shows and folks that really know custom knives will be scrutinizing those grind lines.

Again, I'm not dissing folks who use guides or jigs but I think free handing gives you more freedom in changing up grind lines and fixing any mistakes that may occur while grinding out blades.

 

[izafireman]

Thanks for the advice.
I totally agree with you and what you are saying . Also tbh as my pal was saying the other day using a jig is a skill in itself and a quick demo proved that to me. Thing is I don’t won’t to be locked into only being able to use a jig. I must admit though where Scandi grinds are concerned I think they are worth having.

With regards to my hollow grinding I think I might have found my problem, I am tilting the blank to move the grind as and so getting multi facets on the blade. Does that make sense ?

Edit. Apologies Miller, I just realised I didn't thank you for your words and advice. Yes I was pleased with those grinds but with me its a case of I have a mental blockage as to where the initial contact area between blade and wheel should be when I start a grind. I think I am maybe overthinking things possibly as they are the only hollow grinds I have done, maybe a couple more?

Cheers

P