First broken blade...

Frank Hunter

Frank Hunter

Well-Known Member
Had a customer snap a blade a few days ago. It was a fairly rushed order to get it in for him prior to Montana rifle season starting, and I've already reviewed my heat treatment records to make sure I didn't miss anything. I'd already seen and refurbished a few knives for this family previously and they all had what I'd call severe hammer marks on the spine from using a tool to drive them through the pelvis of deer I'm guessing. He snapped a plate quenched 440C blade with a 375 degree temper, and sure enough it had two big strike marks on the spine across from the break. The grain looks very small. Any comments or other experiences with this sort of thing? I'm going to replace the knife free of charge regardless of abuse...not ruling out anything on my end at this point yet either. Thanks!
 
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I think you should give up on 440c and at least go to ATS 34 if price is a concern. Elmax would be my best advice but it cost more.
 
I've thought about it. 440C is slightly "vanilla" in buyer's minds anymore and I always have to explain that it's not the junk fleamarket 440. I use it because the heat treatment is pretty simple and it finishes nicely, along with providing a good upgrade versus the cheap knives most of my guys owned in the past. Any durability concerns with it you've encountered, Bruce? I've heard Elmax is a super-steel along with the Cowry X and Y.
 
I have NEVER had a 440C blade of mine break, except for when the guy was hitting it with a hammer to go through
hog Leg bone. He had some trouble understanding why my guarantee didn't cover that?

I asked him if any of his other knives had failed when he used them like that?
He said, Oh Yeah? I see what you mean. I suggested that he get a saw or a axe for the heavy hog bones and use the knives for meat & hide.

Properly HTed 440C holds with the best of them. Ats-34 does have a little better edge retention.

Does it look like he was prying against bone with the blade?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
The knife had a brushed/buffed utility finish that showed some pretty good galling. Bone I'm guessing. The two strike marks weren't chipped but swaged 3/32 into the spine, one partly over the other. I think how the steel deflected and didn't blow out is testament to the ultimate durability of it. Upon etching lightly with ferric chloride there's a shadow line just outside of the break towards the tip that with further inspection shows is slightly raised. As if it had flexed and torn slightly before breaking through. Makes me wonder how much torque he had on it during the strikes. This was sold as a skinner, I'm fulfilling the "full warranty" but this is obviously abuse. For work this heavy he definitely needs a hatchet.
 
I would inform him that you are making a new knife for him, ONCE! Next time he needs to bring along a saw or hatchet
for the next hunt. 440C holds up great! From what you describe,He had all of his weight on it and was abusing the knife. If he was hacking with the blade on bone you would more likely get Chipping damage.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
Edge was still shaving sharp although not as polished when I got it back. I gather he was trying to baton it with something. The knife was only in the field for 3 deer if I heard him correctly, and they hadn't got to parting the hung carcasses out yet. He's been polite enough but not quite forthcoming as to the mishap ;) ...I know the guy so that's a factor in the whole thing, too. Thanks everyone!
 
Frank you are a better man than me! I would not replace a knife that a man out right Abused as he did that's what bone saws are made for. Maybe i am just anal but i like to take care of my stuff. Some people think cause there is a warranty they can do as they please with it. O well as some one ones said You Can't Fix Stupid!
 
I have to agree hammer is a no- no . I know your customer is important and you need to keep them satisfied . I would let them know you cant beat blades with a hammer . Maybe as a second thought you could sell him a sharp chopper to supplement the skinner as a set ???
 
I broke a 440c blade before while sliding a half guard on. Granted I was sqeezing it on in the vise but used the same method with ATS-34 and never broke one. I only used "Paul Bos" heat treated blades. I know for a fact that ATS will out cut a 440c.

Bob Loveless loved the the ATS 34 so I started using it.

One time I refurbished an ATS knife I sold before. He bought the knife in "used" condition and complained about hammer marks on the spine. It was indeed beat up but the edge wasnt chipped or bent at all. I was impressed after that with the ATS and have always used it as my new baseline stainless. That was at least 10 years ago. The new steels are much better yet. I'm an Elmax man now. I know it costs more and you need an oven and rockwell tester but the customer will pay the difference gladly.
 
Bruce,
I also used Ats-34 for years. That is really strange that 440C blade broke on you fitting the guard? I also use Paul Bos for all of my stainless.
With intended use, I have never had a 440C break, I started using 440C instead of the Ats-34 for my culinary knives because of increased corrosion resistance The Ats-34 would spot up to easy. I am now moving to CPM-154 for many of my patterns and CPM-S35VN for the bigger hard use chef knives.
I just purchased another full sheet of CPM-154 and it will be sent to David at Great lakes water jet for some more of my Rhino Chop & 4 3/4" Chefette blades.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
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