forge metal help

R

remist17

Well-Known Member
I am looking to start making knives using coal forge. What metal are you using. I know railroad spikes and old lawn blades. Suggestions are appreciated
 
Seriously, forget about old railroad spikes and lawn mower blades and car springs. Seriously. It's more trouble than it's worth and most of that junk will not make a good blade and you'll never know for sure what it is or how to properly heat treat it IF it will even harden.

Call Aldo Bruno, the New Jersey Steel Barron, and get some 1084, about $18 for a 4' bar. http://newjerseysteelbaron.com/shop/product-category/high-carbon-steel/

or email Kelly Cupples and get some 1080. octihunter AT charter DOT net

If you want to know you're making the best knife you can, (and why wouldn't you?) use a known steel with a known heat treat procedure. Messing around with 'mystery' junk is never really free or even cheaper in spite of they myths floating around out there.
 
Good point. Njsteel are you saying to get a block from them or flat stock? I've gotten flat stock from them before
 
Finding usable, consistent "steel" has changed dramatically within the last decade or so. For a long time engineers in this country would specify a particular grade of steel for the parts their company produced. When things were that way, we had the ability to basically find a given object in the scrapyard, and KNOW it was made of a specific grade of steel.

In the mid 80s, things changed. In the name of making more profit, companies went to what is know as "spec" manufacturing. Rather then specifying a particular grade of steel, specifications were produced for what a given part must do....with the caveate that the part be made of the cheapest material that would meet the need. That changed everything. Today there are literally hundreds of different alloys being used to produce similar parts for almost everything. Add to that the fact that there is little to no "new" steel being produced in this country (almost all steel produced in the US in now recycled), and things get even more diluted. Trying to use "junkyard" steel these days is a sure receipe for frustration and failure.

I have even experienced situations where I've found a particular grade of steel, ordered it, and received something totally different. When I called to question/complain, the response was "Well, its close enough to be a substitute for XXXX". WHAT!?!?

My experiences have caused me to become very particular about who I trust to purchase steel from. My advice is two fold..... 1. Find a supplier that you trust. 2. When you do find a good source for a particular grade of steel you want, buy as much of it as you can, because its likely it will not be available the next time you want it. This is particularly true for what I call "forgable" steels.

Compared to quality/availability a decade ago, todays steel market is in "crisis".....and most knifemakers don't even realize it.
 
I'd buy flat bars. 1/4" x 1 1/4" x 48" is a pretty good all around size and can be used for hunters, camp knives and medium bowies. I forge all my hunters out of 1" wide bar by 1/4" thick or 3/16" even these days. For big bowies I start with 1 1/2" wide stock.

If you want to forge blades, spend your time and fuel actually forging blades. Personally, I find no use in forging stock flat first or straightening it first then forging a blade, especially with hand forging. My time, energy and propane are too valuable to be messing around with that stuff, only to find out it won't harden anyway. :)

IMO, nothing beats picking up an already flat and straight bar of known steel, sticking it in the forge and start forging a knife. Simple straightforward and because I know the steel type I know exactly what needs to be done with it at each step.
 
Last edited:
I am not a knife maker but have a seriously large collection. I have knifes by Bruce Bump- Dave Lesch- Randy Haas- Dave Broadwell - Mark Knapp - Wade Hougham - John Cohea Just to name a few. I have knives made from Rail Road spikes and car springs and have had no problems . The stand up GOOD and keep a Great edge. I have lots of Knifes from MS makers so I have plenty to compare to. KT
 
kidterico said:
I am not a knife maker but have a seriously large collection. I have knifes by Bruce Bump- Dave Lesch- Randy Haas- Dave Broadwell - Mark Knapp - Wade Hougham - John Cohea Just to name a few. I have knives made from Rail Road spikes and car springs and have had no problems . The stand up GOOD and keep a Great edge. I have lots of Knifes from MS makers so I have plenty to compare to. KT
Click to expand...

That's fine for masters and seasoned makers that can tell with various tests if the steel is good steel and if it will harden and how it moves under the hammer. Or if they absolutely know the source. Additionally, they have the experience to know how the knife performs in tests compared to known steel knives.

Also, they can probably, either with years of forging experience or power equipment or both, process that junkyard steel into bar form in a matter of minutes.

It would be silly to think that there isn't some good knife steel out there in a junk pile somewhere. But...........

For someone just starting, mystery steel is just time wasted and heartache waiting to happen.
 
I have no experience in forging (yet!!!), and am not as well versed in types of steel as many of you... But I can say, that I have a limited time to spend making knives. For me, it is ABSOLUTELY not cost effective to gamble on the steel quality. The cost of steel is nothing compared to the time and energy I put into a knife.
my $.02.
- J
 
Of all the knives I've made (okay, a whopping 6), only one was from a truly known grade steel. I've made knives from files (2), RR spikes (2) horseshoes (1), and 5061 (1 in progress). The first knife was made to utilize the rack from the first deer my oldest son ever shot, the first year we hunted. I kept the sorry looking rack and tag for 16 years before I made that first knife. The next knife was made for my second son who got a job with Burlington Northern. A railroad spike knife seemed a good fit. Then, for my son-in-law, I welded two horseshoes back to back and forged and finished a knife he was very pleased with. He, like his grandpa is 'big into horses" (and mules). I mig welded the handle area and forge welded the blade area. I had never seen one like that, but didn't like the look of the backside of the horseshoe knives I'd seen, not to mention the feel of the grip. Now, I'm still working on an american Tanto for my youngest son. With that one I got my first piece of 'store bought' steel. I used 1/4 x 2" 5061. I kind of like forging- up to a point. But, with the type of grind lines I saw coming with that knife, and knowing he may put it through the paces, I wanted the best grade steel that I am skilled enough to heat-treat effectively.
I guess I'm not a purist- if I can cut a piece of steel in 20 seconds with the chop saw, I probably won't be heating it and cutting it on a chisel hardy tool. And, what some of you guys have stated makes sense to me too- why spend time forging out a flat bar, when you can buy one at a pretty reasonable price- and know what you've got? But in some cases, the character or sentiment connected to a spike, file, rasp, etc, may be more important than getting an exact Rockwell rating, huh? Biggest thing- enjoy what you put yours hands to. BTW Thanks to all of you who share your experience and wisdom here!
 
Last edited:
J. Doyle said:
That's fine for masters and seasoned makers that can tell with various tests if the steel is good steel and if it will harden and how it moves under the hammer. Or if they absolutely know the source. Additionally, they have the experience to know how the knife performs in tests compared to known steel knives.

Also, they can probably, either with years of forging experience or power equipment or both, process that junkyard steel into bar form in a matter of minutes.

It would be silly to think that there isn't some good knife steel out there in a junk pile somewhere. But...........

For someone just starting, mystery steel is just time wasted and heartache waiting to happen.
Click to expand...
I know John and Wade are not MS and I remember that Ed Caffrey MS wrote a article that when he was starting out he made RRknifes to pay for his table at shows. KT
 
I said masters and/or seasoned makers. And I meant 'masters' as in experienced or masters of the craft, not necessarily the ABS rating. Respectfully, I guess I'm not sure what your point is for that matter.

A railroad spike knife of any type will NEVER outperform a good known carbon steel blade.

Again, there's decent mystery steel out there. But my advice came from the standpoint of helping a new forger make the best blade he can with the least amount of headache and hassle.

Sure, I can forge my first ever framing hammer into a knife and say that I transitioned a tool from one life stage to another..............but it will never make a GOOD knife. ;)

Not trying to argue with anyone, I just wanted to get the new guy off on the right foot.
 
Last edited:
It's a can of worms Terry...Kind of like veg tann vs. chemical tann eating up guns....I will not live long enough too see it...

Just my opinion but I make knives and tomahawks out of anything someone else throws away...Old bed frames are my favorite...
They all work like a cutting utensil and they all sell...Maybe not high dollars but I make them for fun...and a few bucks..

I also tell people exactly what they are getting and if any problems I'll fix it....
but maybe I'd sleep better if I used only store bought O1, or Chinese Damascus.....Get back to you on that one...
 
Last edited:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top