Forge that's never been lit - by a stock removal maker.

I really don't like the way the regulator lines up with the door on the back of the forge. If you have any blow back around the door it will be heading right for the regulator. I would put an elbow connection right where you have the ball valve to keep any part of the fuel line a little farther away from the flame. I think that I would also put the pressure valve on the regulator to measure the gas pressure leaving it. The burner tubes also need to be inside the wall of the forge. With them sticking in like that they will become hot and cause burning within the tube which should not be happening. The ends of the burner tubes will also burn off eventually.

Doug
 
Rob,
I think your problem for the most part is at the "grill" regulator. Those things only deliver around 3-4 psi. You'll never get more than that past your high pressure regulator. Yes , you got me, .030 was my intention. On my venturii forge I started with an .030 tip but in tuning it I wound up at a #52 hole size, whatever that corresponds to in 00000s. Try dumping the grill regulator before you do anything else, the high pressure regulator may start behaving properly. Keep it simple, then work out any other issues. I know first hand that trying to tackle everything at once had me spitting and kickin the dog.

Rudy
 
Who knew that heating up a lawn mower blade would get this involved ? LOL.
I would have got my torch out a long time ago. Seriously though, I love conversations like this...it's interesting.

Rudy
 
That is exactly what I was recommending if you read my post closely. I did throw a lot of info at you but recommended not to reinvent anything yet. That BBQ regulator is not going to let you build the pressure correctly. And like I said hot spots can be annoying but they can be dealt with for the time being without tearing it apart and starting over!

One word of advice when you get through changing around your plumbing to get rid of the BBQ regulator and get the pressure gauge where it is reading off of the HP red regulator, pressurize your system and before lighting the first time check for leaks.

A little soapy water in a spritz bottle on the connections if you are getting bubbles, you got a leak. Stop, fix it, and retest. You don't want propane leaking on your system. Theory says, as long as it pressurized and it ignites you are going to get a flame shooting out and it should not follow it back to the source. Sometimes theory doesn't hold true. I have seen where a flame was improperly adjusted and their was a lot of unburnt propane escaping into the air. This usually only happens when it is extremely cold when it is cold, the unburnt propane starts to sink in the atmosphere. But if it does you will know shortly if the area is enclosed, one way or another!

I ran into this years ago in the dead of winter, in a closed up two car garage. My buddy was trying to warm the room to be able to do some spray painting. His intention was to heat the room, cut off the heat and then paint then put the heat back on to keep it warm enough to dry the paint!

In his eagerness to get the job going, he had hotted up the flame too much and the regulator was actually putting out so much pressure that the flame could not burn it all. All of the sudden my eyes began to burn, my throat was on fire and I started to get a terrific headache! I walked over to the double burner fish cooker he was using to heat the garage and realized what was happening. The best way I can describe it is the flame was blue but at the outer edge their was some yellow with what looked like black flakes kicking out at the end of the burners flames.
Basically what I was seeing was unburnt propane being expelled. I immediately shut it down and we left the garage for a while, once it had a chance to clear the burners were re-lite and this time he turned the pressure down some. So sometimes under the right conditions a high pressure regulator can put out to much pressure for the fire to consume all the propane. In this case the tanks were cold and the pressure had been turned up too much.

The color and shape of the flame is the clue to what is the right mix!
 
OK - small steps sparks. (I love Jodi Foster Movies)

I lost the BBQ regulator and have straight hose from the tank to the red regulator. Did a quick spritz for leaks and finding none I lit it. Cleaned up the dog crap on the floor, washed the singed hair off my arm and lit it again - using the ballcock to introduce gas slowly. A few minutes to warm up and I opened the ballcock up. Howlin' like a banshee. No control at all (think the reg is seized). A bit of flame coming out the front door, but we aren't talking tiger torch. :-D

I let it go for about 10-12 minutes and stuck a pyrometer inside. OK, we aren't there yet. It was about 1400F Still, a big step forward. Replaced the red regulator. With the ballcock closed, it will read 40 PSI, but with the feed going about 5 psi is it.

Wondering if the next step is to cut off the long inner tubes (or as much as possible)
 
That's a start Rob.
As far as control, the forge will suck more air through the feed tubes as it gets hotter. Try covering the intakes partially on either side of the jets to see if you get a better mix in the chamber. Pretty much a flambaster choke, which looks like it's lacking. You may need to get another regulator, mine reads 0-30 psi. Are your connections at the regulator right ? My regulator psi stays where I set it. I noticed yesterday that yours was 10-30 psi(?), It may be restricting flow or theres to much volume in your feed pipes to deliver full psi . Replacing the feeds with brake or fuel line would help restrict volume. The more I think about this, I get the feeling that the forge was built specifically for pressurized natural gas feed. The 10-30 regulator and plumbing would most likely work with natural gas pressures and have the flame controlled at the regulator. I'm not positive but it's an educated guess. Work out the pressure problem before cutting the tubes, you'll have a better idea on what to do with a proper flame coming in.


Rudy
 
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Knifemaker.ca said:
OK - small steps sparks. (I love Jodi Foster Movies)

I lost the BBQ regulator and have straight hose from the tank to the red regulator. Did a quick spritz for leaks and finding none I lit it. Cleaned up the dog crap on the floor, washed the singed hair off my arm and lit it again - using the ballcock to introduce gas slowly. A few minutes to warm up and I opened the ballcock up. Howlin' like a banshee. No control at all (think the reg is seized). A bit of flame coming out the front door, but we aren't talking tiger torch. :-D

I let it go for about 10-12 minutes and stuck a pyrometer inside. OK, we aren't there yet. It was about 1400F Still, a big step forward. Replaced the red regulator. With the ballcock closed, it will read 40 PSI, but with the feed going about 5 psi is it.

Wondering if the next step is to cut off the long inner tubes (or as much as possible)
Click to expand...

Do not cut the tubes yet! That is sort of a last resort step in not being able to get the proper adjustment on a burner!

Look at this with logic, the burners are working, they just won't adjust. Adjustment is accomplished by the pressure you dial in with the RED regulator, which is designed to go from 0 - 30+ PSI. The fact your pressure gauge is changing readings says the pressure gauge is working!

However if once you light the burners you are not getting any difference in the flame from the burners, when you re-adjust the RED HP/ regulator says the pressure regulator is not working properly!!!!

You ought to be able to turn Red HP/ regulator down to where it is only giving a reading of say 3 -4 PSI, then turn on the gas and light the burner. If you have the pressure/air flow properly adjusted properly at this point. You would have small low blue flame.

Then you start turning the center adjustment on the RED HP/ regulator, the pressure should begin to increase. At about 20 PSI the burners should be roaring like a jet engine.
Now that doesn't necessarily mean the flame is going to be adjusted right. It will more than likely be more yellow than blue and you should have to add or take away air to get the properly adjusted flame!
That is usually accomplished either by adjusting a choke built into the burner or by adjusting the air flow on your fan. (NOTE: That last statement would only pertain to a forced air forge) !!!

In your case, once the burners are lit, you are not getting any adjustment to the reading on the pressure gauge or any adjustment to the flame when you adjust the RED HP/ pressure gauge! Am I understanding that correctly????

If so either the RED HP/ regulator is malfunctioning or it has a blockage. Here in Fl. you can't leave and open line for long. We had two types of wasps, that will build a nest in a small opening. One uses mud to build its nest and the other creates a white paper like material to make it's nest. Either of which will block a open gas line in a heartbeat!

Check and see if you can tell if you have some kind of a blockage if not the diaphragm on the RED HP/regulator has gone bad and won't allow for pressure adjustment.

The length of the burner tubes won't stop them from adjusting. It may effect whether you can get a proper flame adjustment or how hot the flame actually gets but it won't stop at least enough adjustment for you to visually see something is happening!!!!
 
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