Forged vs Stock removal

Status
Not open for further replies.
Does the forged blade hold a sharp edge longer ? etc ? Its how you heat treat the steel, Witch is better forging or stock removal? Now there's the can of worms lol. If you forge a knife your going to have to go to the grinder (or a file) at sometime to finish it. Forging and stock removal go hand in hand. One way is no better than the other, just keep a open mind about it and you and only you can make this call. Have fun.
 
Calvin Robinson said:
No snarkyness intended here. Would it be safe to say that a forger is to a stock remover like a potter is to a sculpter? :)
Click to expand...

Calvin,

That's a good try for a analogy. The thing is that we are talking about making the same thing by ether method.

Both are making ether Pots or Sculptures out of steel.

I am all for snarkyness!:biggrin:

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
I believe it depends on many a factor, 1084 and such will benefit from forging and so will any homemade steel because of edge packing and all that but if you buy fancy high alloy steels they usually come at 100% compression anyway so it doesn't matter and forging leads to decarburisation (a solution to this would b to dissolve fullerenes in your quenchant). Also if you fold the steel while forging then there are weak points at the welds no matter how good you are. To be honest though, most handmade knives outperform most production knives and you'll get a good knife either way. You will have to seriously beat the thing up to notice a difference I think though. With forging you don't waste any steel and can get twists and such. I'm new to this and I spend a hell of a lot of time researching and that seems to be how it is but this is a culmination of other people's word as I have minimal experience.
 
Please don't take this as being snarky but can any one tell me about the knives that win all the cutting contest,are they forged or stock removal?
 
Calvin Robinson said:
Please don't take this as being snarky but can any one tell me about the knives that win all the cutting contest,are they forged or stock removal?
Click to expand...

Calvin,
I don't know which one of the methods wins those cutting contests because I lost interest in those contests as soon as I read the description of the contest & realized that I had never had to cut a 1" thick piece of free hanging rope in my life!
Also please don't take this as being Snarky.

By the way? What the heck does snarky mean anyway??:biggrin:

So do tell? as Bugs bunny would say?

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
Ed Day said:
Does the forged blade hold a sharp edge longer ? etc ? Its how you heat treat the steel, Witch is better forging or stock removal? Now there's the can of worms lol. If you forge a knife your going to have to go to the grinder (or a file) at sometime to finish it. Forging and stock removal go hand in hand. One way is no better than the other, just keep a open mind about it and you and only you can make this call. Have fun.
Click to expand...

Hello Ed a fellow Topekan!
I was born there and about all I can remember was it was very cold and flat and the same train seemed to roll by all day! I was 4-5 when my Parents moved to Houston Texas.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
Hi Laurence nice to meet you. Your memory is good, Its cold an the same train keeps coming by all the time and as i get older its not as flat as it use to be lol.
 
rhinoknives said:
Calvin,
I don't know which one of the methods wins those cutting contests because I lost interest in those contests as soon as I read the description of the contest & realized that I had never had to cut a 1" thick piece of free hanging rope in my life!

Laurence
www.rhinoknives.com
Click to expand...

Soooo,
let's create a new style cutting contest. I have never had to cut a 1" thick piece of rope, but I have had to cut all sorts of vegetables and meat and fruit. slices so thin you could almost see thru them, items so big you need a second person to get it on the cutting board. or on wood where your cut must be true and the revealed surface must be ready to finish smooth. also, I have never put a knife in a vise except to hold it still during assembly. and hitting a knife with anything to make a cut would bring the spirits of my craftsman ancestors up out of the grave.

scott
the old sailor
 
scott.livesey said:
Soooo,
let's create a new style cutting contest. I have never had to cut a 1" thick piece of rope, but I have had to cut all sorts of vegetables and meat and fruit. slices so thin you could almost see thru them, items so big you need a second person to get it on the cutting board. or on wood where your cut must be true and the revealed surface must be ready to finish smooth. also, I have never put a knife in a vise except to hold it still during assembly. and hitting a knife with anything to make a cut would bring the spirits of my craftsman ancestors up out of the grave.

scott
the old sailor
Click to expand...

:24: Ahh yes - the sushi competition - the envelope opening - and the sweater thread cut. :biggrin:

it's a great idea Scott, but few real world knife uses would pass for a spectator sport. You gotta admit those competitions can be fun to watch.
 
rhinoknives said:
Calvin,
I don't know which one of the methods wins those cutting contests because I lost interest in those contests as soon as I read the description of the contest & realized that I had never had to cut a 1" thick piece of free hanging rope in my life!
Also please don't take this as being Snarky.

By the way? What the heck does snarky mean anyway??:biggrin:


So do tell? as Bugs bunny would say?



Laurence



www.rhinoknives.com
Click to expand...


Please don't take this as being snarky.

I can tell you,for what it's worth,that stock removal knives win the cutting contests that I'm referring to,like the ones at The Blade Show.
Laurence,I don't know what snarky means I just know I don't want to be perceived as being it because if I am Boss Dog will close this thread. And I don't want this thread to be closed because of my snarkerness.:9:
 
Calvin Robinson said:
Please don't take this as being snarky.

I can tell you,for what it's worth,that stock removal knives win the cutting contests that I'm referring to,like the ones at The Blade Show.
Laurence,I don't know what snarky means I just know I don't want to be perceived as being it because if I am Boss Dog will close this thread. And I don't want this thread to be closed because of my snarkerness.:9:
Click to expand...

I appreciate your wanting to be polite. That means a lot around here and I am glad that Boss Dog & cohorts don't allow Snarkeyness!

I though that the stock removal knives would reign in the rope cutting since most forger's general make thicker & heavier knives even if the grind them afterwards.

Beside's! Every one knows that belt grinding the steel 1" behind the edge compresses the steel making it superior to a forged blade! :biggrin:

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
Calvin Robinson said:
Please don't take this as being snarky.

I can tell you,for what it's worth,that stock removal knives win the cutting contests that I'm referring to,like the ones at The Blade Show.
Laurence,I don't know what snarky means I just know I don't want to be perceived as being it because if I am Boss Dog will close this thread. And I don't want this thread to be closed because of my snarkerness.:9:
Click to expand...

Hi Calvin : Thanks for posting that, you may help open some eyes.

In baseball, a good bat to have, is typically a Louisville Slugger or say a Rawlings, if you use one of those, will you be the next Babe Ruth? Of course not, but what I am getting at is, it's not really the bat or knife, but the person using it in these contests. Forged or stock knives, one is no better than the other, and if you go to a cutting contest and see a knife break please don't make a big deal about it, it happens just like in baseball, I've seen bats break many times, but I'm not boycotting Louisville or Rawlings!
 
scott.livesey said:
Soooo,
let's create a new style cutting contest. I have never had to cut a 1" thick piece of rope, but I have had to cut all sorts of vegetables and meat and fruit. slices so thin you could almost see thru them, items so big you need a second person to get it on the cutting board. or on wood where your cut must be true and the revealed surface must be ready to finish smooth. also, I have never put a knife in a vise except to hold it still during assembly. and hitting a knife with anything to make a cut would bring the spirits of my craftsman ancestors up out of the grave.

scott
the old sailor
Click to expand...

I am all for it! as someone mentioned, I don't think it would take off for the most part as a sport.

I love making culinary knives and being able to slice almost paper thin is one of the grinds and edges I strive for. A letter opening contest also sounds practical for pocket knife contestants.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
Personally like all kinds of well made blades . I prefer forged blades myself , probably for the same reasons Kevin articulated .
I have been to quite a few cutting contest , won a few here and there . I went to a show in arkansas where they held a cutting contest.
They wouldnt let me Play Bwaaaa... Of course I had a 20" wakizashi with a very wide thick blade . I did cut 3 -1" hemp ropes swinging free with one strike . Also chopped up a 4x4 into toothpicks . cutting contests have rules on what you can use . I couldn't play anymore after that. Snark = http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=snark Regards Bubba
 
Last edited:
Bubba,
I know what a dictionary says Snarkyness is. I wanted Calvin's take on it? LOL.

So they didn't invite you to come back after you cut their rope and chopped upped the wood? :biggrin:

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
I really enjoyed reading through this thread. Besides being informative I've found it to be downright funny.

I would love to learn to forge steel, but I dont have many body parts left to sacrifice.
 
Hey Laurence , didnt mean to mess with your funnies. I personally thought a snark was something very different , Had to look it up .

They would not let me use sword ... They claim the longer the blade , the faster your blade speed is . So they said it was unfair .

All blades had to be approx same length . .....Bubba
 
bubba-san said:
Hey Laurence , didnt mean to mess with your funnies. I personally thought a snark was something very different , Had to look it up .

They would not let me use sword ... They claim the longer the blade , the faster your blade speed is . So they said it was unfair .

All blades had to be approx same length . .....Bubba
Click to expand...

Bubba,
I was just being Snarky in my reply! :biggrin:

I think it ALL really boils down to the maker and their design in the Forged Vs Stock removal debate.

Laurence

www.rhinoknives.com
 
Let me try this again…

http://articles.pubarticles.com/advantages-disadvantages-of-forging-process-1307095229,201061.html

http://www.ehow.com/info_7827211_advantages-metal-forging-process.html

http://ezinearticles.com/?Forging:-The-Advantages-and-Disadvantages&id=6713569

Quote from first link, advantages of hot forging:

"Advantages

* Increase in ductile strength

* High temperature helps in removal of homogeneous substances due to increased diffusion

* Reduction in the pore size"

Quote from second link:

"One advantage of forged metal over cast or machined metal is the increased strength of the part. The forging process allows the metal to retain its directional strength by altering the grain of the metal, rather than cutting it off during machining or removing it completely through casting. Forged parts have no internal gas pockets as can occur during casting. Because forging alters the grain of the metal, it is easy to forge a part that meets certain impact strength requirements. A machined part that cuts off the grain of the metal is weaker at the point where the grain meets the edge of the part."

What I don't understand is why these well established facts are played down by the knifemaking community and especially by some of those who claim to be the most scientific.

Here's a quickie illustration,... not the best, but you should get the idea.

DSCN6035.jpg


Take care lest we throw the baby out with the bathwater.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top