G/Flex Expoxy Bond

I use gflex as well and have had to resort to similar "hardcore" methods to remove a scale. So I do like the product. I am "disturbed" by what Ed experienced. You don't request the time and effort of a company/business person to test your product and then fail to behave properly. To me that's very unprofessional and does "stink" of wanting an endorsement rather than a fair test.
 
chrisstaniar said:
I use gflex as well and have had to resort to similar "hardcore" methods to remove a scale. So I do like the product. I am "disturbed" by what Ed experienced. You don't request the time and effort of a company/business person to test your product and then fail to behave properly. To me that's very unprofessional and does "stink" of wanting an endorsement rather than a fair test.
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To be fair, some of Ed's concerns are polar opposite from experiences others have had.

I would like to reiterate a few things:

I think BOTH west systems epoxies and acraglas are EXTREMELY reliable high quality epoxies that will meet or exceed performance expectations provided we do our due diligence with proper process and surface prep.

I talked with Brownells AND West Systems yesterday. BOTH were extremely friendly and helpful. BOTH clearly stated their shelf life. Acraglas lists in print over 5 years and the tech said 7-10 years. West systems lists 2 years for hardeners and 3 years for resins but said in reality its much longer than that, citing several anecdotal reports of 15 years.

NEITHER company was able to speculate on life of bond once cured due to a host of factors and BOTH claim they have never attempted to give any such hard numbers.

BOTH companies dismissed the idea of any epoxy being engineered to break down after a given time, rather insisting that once cured, it becomes inert so there is nothing to break down.

BOTH maintain that cured product is 100% waterPROOF for the life of the product. West systems is used extensively in boat building....makes total sense.

NEITHER line of products are high heat tolerant epoxies. Generally what's bad for one is bad for the other. Acraglas is not in a significantly higher heat tolerance category than west systems.

G-flex when warmed (as suggested in the instructions) becomes much more viscous and pours wonderfully.

I WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT NO ONE TAKE MY WORD OR ED'S WORD OR ANYONE ELSE'S WORD ON ANY OF THIS. If you have questions, call the companies yourself and get the answer right from source.
 
I WOULD ENCOURAGE THAT NO ONE TAKE MY WORD OR ED'S WORD OR ANYONE ELSE'S WORD ON ANY OF THIS.
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Exactly! We seem to live in a world where many want answers yesterday, and are totally unwilling to do any research beyond watching Youtube..... As I have said MANY times, everything in Knifemaking is not only a give and take scenario.....but more so about personal preferences/choices, and there is no "one size fits all". Having said that...... I've stated my experiences and preferences.... if yours differs or varies, that perfectly OK.
 
I was going to edit my post but I'll just make a new one here thanking Ed for taking the time to respond and clarify his experience with g-flex.
 
What great information, thanks. But, oh my, sorry for stirring up such controversy on my first posting on this forum. I feel like I kicked the hornets nest. I had no idea that gluing on handles is this sensitive.
However, thanks to you'all I've learned a LOT, particularly about AcraGlas. After reading about that stuff I found it is indeed an amazing product. Perhaps I'll try that on my next set of handles.
Bob
 
MTBob said:
had no idea that gluing on handles is this sensitive.
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You will be surprised how often things like this will be debated among makers. Wait until there is a heat treat discussion lol. What sets this forum apart is that no one here (that I am aware of) intends anything personal by sharing or even disagreeing with another person. Things here are handled with respect, making a discussion personal or insults are not acceptable.

On a separate note this thread presents an opportunity to share another view point on doing self research or asking questions of people who already have the information you want. I am a work smarter not harder kind of person. Let's take two makers chosen completely at random and consider the point. We will call these makers Ed Caffery and John Doyle. I look at Ed and John's work and say to myself "these guys know their craft and I would like to emulate their level of quality and precision someday". I have read posts from both of them and I have seen their attitudes and willingness to help other makers avoid painful and costly mistakes out of the goodness of their heart because we dawg on sure are not paying them. I "know" them both well enough to be of the opinion that neither of them would ever steer someone wrong on purpose or with ill intent even if their feathers may get ruffled from time to time as all of us do. So why on the earth would I spend hours researching, testing, questioning contemplating and who knows what else to get an opinion on epoxy when they have already done it. Talk about a waste of time. I have researched these two (and others) makers and trust them. In the current debate, their opinions differ but no matter if you chose one or the other I guarantee you things would be alright with your handles. So in this case I will humbly disagree with both Ed and John and tell others to trust their "word" when they give it. They have decades of experience and are willing to share it why re-do what they have done. Just my opinion, I would rather spend my time making knives than researching epoxy needlessly.
 
Chris Railey said:
You will be surprised how often things like this will be debated among makers. Wait until there is a heat treat discussion lol. What sets this forum apart is that no one here (that I am aware of) intends anything personal by sharing or even disagreeing with another person. Things here are handled with respect, making a discussion personal or insults are not acceptable.

On a separate note this thread presents an opportunity to share another view point on doing self research or asking questions of people who already have the information you want. I am a work smarter not harder kind of person. Let's take two makers chosen completely at random and consider the point. We will call these makers Ed Caffery and John Doyle. I look at Ed and John's work and say to myself "these guys know their craft and I would like to emulate their level of quality and precision someday". I have read posts from both of them and I have seen their attitudes and willingness to help other makers avoid painful and costly mistakes out of the goodness of their heart because we dawg on sure are not paying them. I "know" them both well enough to be of the opinion that neither of them would ever steer someone wrong on purpose or with ill intent even if their feathers may get ruffled from time to time as all of us do. So why on the earth would I spend hours researching, testing, questioning contemplating and who knows what else to get an opinion on epoxy when they have already done it. Talk about a waste of time. I have researched these two (and others) makers and trust them. In the current debate, their opinions differ but no matter if you chose one or the other I guarantee you things would be alright with your handles. So in this case I will humbly disagree with both Ed and John and tell others to trust their "word" when they give it. They have decades of experience and are willing to share it why re-do what they have done. Just my opinion, I would rather spend my time making knives than researching epoxy needlessly.
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Financially, using their willingness to share experiences is just the smart thing to do. Most of us newbies are on a tight budget and need to spend the few bucks we have wisely. We can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars finding out the best glue, the best grinding belts for your buck.... I can't imagine how many thousands of dollars I have saved by seeking guidance from people very experienced in this craft.....
 
Don't take this as a heated conversation. One of the disadvantages of this format is that you can't get the voice inflection and the like. This discussion is just folks saying what they think.

Doug
 
FWIW:
I have used acraglas several times. It's great stuff. It really stinks and that put me off it.
I routinely use Gflex, Blade Bond, West system and BSI epoxy since I have all of them in my shop.
All of them have performed very well for me.

I tested over 20 types of epoxy (Glue Wars thread on BF and Knifecenter forums) before I got in the supply game. Most performed nearly the same when the surfaces was properly prepared. There are others to consider: Speed Bonder 324, 325 and 326 are also exceptional. 3M has some excellent stuff also. The Loctite twin tube stuff from a home building store I would avoid. It failed the earliest and most often in testing. I threw away 5 unopened packages of it after I did my tests.

A mediocre epoxy used on an excellently prepared surface will outperform the best epoxy on the market that uses a poorly prepared surface. Sand blasting, hands down is the best surface to bond. Manufactures use sandblasted coupons when testing their stuff. Acetone leaves an oily film as does Green Soap. 90% rubbing alcohol cleans things up with no residue film.
 
Jon Buescher said:
Financially, using their willingness to share experiences is just the smart thing to do. Most of us newbies are on a tight budget and need to spend the few bucks we have wisely. We can't afford to spend hundreds of dollars finding out the best glue, the best grinding belts for your buck.... I can't imagine how many thousands of dollars I have saved by seeking guidance from people very experienced in this craft.....
Click to expand...

Exactly
 
Ha! I was googling cure times and a link to this thread popped up. So, here’s my two cents lol. About 1-2 years ago, I was having trouble getting my tv to tilt in the right direction. I wanted it to “tilt down”. To make matters worse, I was missing 2 of the 4 mounting screws... I only had the top two corners of the square that attaches to the tv. Anyway, I was mad because the screws were missing so I grabbed some string I use for leather stitching and about 3/4 oz of gflex (all I had left) smeared it on the dusty mounting bracket and on the dusty back of the tv, stuck it together, and tied it all up with the string, and forgot about it. The next morning my wife was surprised to see the string and removed it; she figured the kids had done it or whatever. I was sleeping lol. Never thought about again. Wouldn’t even know about it today. Hmmm. You wanna hear why I know about it today? Ok.
My son (3yrs) was obviously (from the condition of my living room) beating everything with a broomstick... including the tv. I would say 65% of the pixels work. It has been hard to get accustomed to only receiving 65% of the visual information, but life ain’t fair ya know. Do you wanna know why I haven’t just gotten a new tv? I can you out there saying, “cmon kev, man that’s pitiful, you need to treat yourself, bro. That’s a shame.”

It’s a longer story actually, but I won’t bore you with the details of why certain things didn’t work due to sloppy application of the gflex and the current fixed position of the arms relative to the position of lag bolts in the studs. I’ll just come out and say that I have been too lazy to move all the stuff in the living room and move several tons of the kids stuff so I can grind the tv off. :0(
 
BossDog said:
FWIW:
I have used acraglas several times. It's great stuff. It really stinks and that put me off it.
I routinely use Gflex, Blade Bond, West system and BSI epoxy since I have all of them in my shop.
All of them have performed very well for me.

I tested over 20 types of epoxy (Glue Wars thread on BF and Knifecenter forums) before I got in the supply game. Most performed nearly the same when the surfaces was properly prepared. There are others to consider: Speed Bonder 324, 325 and 326 are also exceptional. 3M has some excellent stuff also. The Loctite twin tube stuff from a home building store I would avoid. It failed the earliest and most often in testing. I threw away 5 unopened packages of it after I did my tests.

A mediocre epoxy used on an excellently prepared surface will outperform the best epoxy on the market that uses a poorly prepared surface. Sand blasting, hands down is the best surface to bond. Manufactures use sandblasted coupons when testing their stuff. Acetone leaves an oily film as does Green Soap. 90% rubbing alcohol cleans things up with no residue film.
Click to expand...

That's interesting you say that about the acetone... I've heard that elsewhere as well but never heard that claim substantiated. When I check it on a clean piece of glass there is zero residue (at least, visually). Do you have any reference online or testing you have done? Really curious on this! Don't want to keep using something that's not ideal.

Also, for others... Boss is correct on blasting (sand or al oxide though, nothing round which will just dimple the surface instead of etch into it). Works amazing. I've also been using g/flex but recently switched to System Three Blade Pro epoxy. When I tested on gluing up some liners compared to CA glue it was an amazing difference. They were also super helpful when I called to express concerns and ask questions. I'd post a link but not sure if that's allowed.
 
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