Getting Closer

Kevin Zito

KNIFE MAKER
I was just working on a project and started thinking about you all and this site. I’ve said this before but I’m not sure if people buy it... a yr and a half ago, I did not own a hammer. I don’t know maybe my wife had one ... but I never saw it. Anyway, I’ve never step foot in a plant or on a real work site. Its always been mathematics for me. Mathematicians don’t really get too physical lol. There are tons of things that I missed. The difference between theory and practice is probably the main thing that i never really learned.

So I snapped a quick pic on my phone of what I’m doing. It’s no big deal for probably all of you. But to me, it wraps up a good bit of what I learned. If you look at this pic and understand what I’m talking about, then from the very bottom of my heart I say thank you. I’ve learned so much from you all, and that’s a big deal to me. I hope this post makes sense.

Disclaimer.... I clearly have some filing left to do. Lol
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Kevin, I am amazed by how far you have come, and how fast.

Something that is hard to learn when converting the theoretical into the practical is the benefit that precision tools can make. Many times we may struggle with thinking that the math is off or that we've missed something because the end result isn't coming out the way we predicted, when in reality the tools we use simply won't get us from here to there.

The reason I say this is because I also do not come from a machining background. I am an electrical weenie by trade. I'm very mechanical for an electrical weenie, but I never got any kind of practical mechanical/machinist training and therefore I simply had no idea about best practices when it came to layout, setup, and getting true flatness and squareness. Oh, I understood the concepts just fine- but I didn't have any idea that there was an easy way and a hard way. The hard way is trying to use tools that aren't accurate and square.

Take your square, for instance. You may discover that no amount of checking, filing, checking, filing gets your blade shoulders to sit flush on the guard because the square you are using is made for carpentry work where the square part of that tool is plenty good enough for cabinetry, but is off just that wee bit where the shoulders of a blade may not be perfect. Enter the precision square (machinist square) and it's inexpensive cousin, the 1-2-3 block.

Thank God for forums like this one, and for YouTube University where we self-taught folks get so much of our education these days. I can only speak for myself, but I have no doubt I'd have given up long ago were it not for others who freely share what they have learned.
 
And please don't take my last post the wrong way! Your picture shows just how good of a job you have done!

Thanks for the huge compliment. Means a great deal to me. And...

ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! It is those bits of knowledge that make all the difference in the world. In fact you’ve mentioned those blocks before so I it’s really another lesson in bad listening. I’m ordering some now.

It’s very strange to me now that I have never actually thought about physically making something square. Now I am actually measuring, drawing, filing, checking, filing, sanding, buffing... lol. I never even cut the whole yard before like from start to finish hehe no lie... kinda sad now that I typed it lol. As I type this, is has dawned on me that I have been hand-turning brass case necks to plus minus .00005 ins since I was probably 10. But all the “stuff” to do it was already in my bedroom/gun room lol. Either way this knife making thing and knife dogs have really changed my life for the better. I teach totally differently now because of this “hobby.”
 
I always have to smile when folks find the joy in knowing that they can make something with their own two hands. I think the reason Bladesmithing/Knifemaking has never gotten old for me, is because EVERY day I walk into the shop, I learn something new about this endeavor, and it's that never ending learning experience that keeps me so engrossed.
 
Kevin you have been working very hard to get where you are today! You asked for and got criticism and that is not always easy to do. Sometimes a fellow doesn't know what he has let himself in for when he asks for criticism on something has poured himself into!! Mathematician,...……………. those who take numbers and make it looks so easy. Not one of my better subjects as a kid but ended up using it all my life!!
You my friend have made leaps and bounds each and every piece you display is a step up from the last. You are gonna keep on till you absolutely master this knife making thing! Keep up the good work!


Quick story I was building a house for a fellow who was a teacher. I was pulling a diagonal on the string layout for the footings to check for square. He comes and asks what am I doing? I told him I was checking too see if the layout was square!
He replies I don't understand. So I told him this is basically a rectangle. If I have the length measurements the same and the width measurements the same, and if the measurement from corner to corner is exactly the same then it is square, if the measurement is off we are out of square and I have to adjust the strings till the measurement is equal.
He goes off into his truck and starts burning up a calculator. I had built his brother in laws house and he was standing there. So I turned to him and asked, what kind of teacher is he?? He teaches math, was his reply!

Oh lord, I know he doesn't believe me! So it took a couple of tweeks but I got it squared and we called it a day! I am loading up tools and here he comes!
Cliff he says that won't work. I told him trust me it will work and your house is now square. A day or so later he pulls up while they are digging footings and comes to me and says. You know Cliff I had to go get back in my math books but that will work!! :) I know I been doing this since I was 14!!! LOL I ended up building two more house for him!


He recently passed from the big C and in his later years he became quite a woodworker! As his friends and family gathered at the house. His wife told me that he loved woodworking in the past few years and when someone would compliment him on his work he would say Cliff taught me that!! Sorry if my stories are too long!

You hang in there Kevin and at the rate you are going you are gonna be a master at knife making!!
 
I always have to smile when folks find the joy in knowing that they can make something with their own two hands. I think the reason Bladesmithing/Knifemaking has never gotten old for me, is because EVERY day I walk into the shop, I learn something new about this endeavor, and it's that never ending learning experience that keeps me so engrossed.
I couldn’t agree more. Right now I’m banging my head against the wall because I want a very nice reliable way to put a hole the size of that tang in a block of wood. Is the answer just digging it out carefully with the drill press?
 
Kevin you have been working very hard to get where you are today! You asked for and got criticism and that is not always easy to do. Sometimes a fellow doesn't know what he has let himself in for when he asks for criticism on something has poured himself into!! Mathematician,...……………. those who take numbers and make it looks so easy. Not one of my better subjects as a kid but ended up using it all my life!!
You my friend have made leaps and bounds each and every piece you display is a step up from the last. You are gonna keep on till you absolutely master this knife making thing! Keep up the good work!


Quick story I was building a house for a fellow who was a teacher. I was pulling a diagonal on the string layout for the footings to check for square. He comes and asks what am I doing? I told him I was checking too see if the layout was square!
He replies I don't understand. So I told him this is basically a rectangle. If I have the length measurements the same and the width measurements the same, and if the measurement from corner to corner is exactly the same then it is square, if the measurement is off we are out of square and I have to adjust the strings till the measurement is equal.
He goes off into his truck and starts burning up a calculator. I had built his brother in laws house and he was standing there. So I turned to him and asked, what kind of teacher is he?? He teaches math, was his reply!

Oh lord, I know he doesn't believe me! So it took a couple of tweeks but I got it squared and we called it a day! I am loading up tools and here he comes!
Cliff he says that won't work. I told him trust me it will work and your house is now square. A day or so later he pulls up while they are digging footings and comes to me and says. You know Cliff I had to go get back in my math books but that will work!! :) I know I been doing this since I was 14!!! LOL I ended up building two more house for him!


He recently passed from the big C and in his later years he became quite a woodworker! As his friends and family gathered at the house. His wife told me that he loved woodworking in the past few years and when someone would compliment him on his work he would say Cliff taught me that!! Sorry if my stories are too long!

You hang in there Kevin and at the rate you are going you are gonna be a master at knife making!!
Wow thanks for the compliments and the great story. It’s a shame to hear about your friends passing. I don’t know if I’ll ever get super good as a maker, but I sure do love trying to be. Everyone should make a knife.
 
I couldn’t agree more. Right now I’m banging my head against the wall because I want a very nice reliable way to put a hole the size of that tang in a block of wood. Is the answer just digging it out carefully with the drill press?
Find an nice sharp commercial hacksaw blade and make something like this which is a good start after you have drilled the initial holes for the tang. On another level getting good is simply a matter of looking for improvments you can make in every knife you make.

0dItMU7l.jpg
 
Find an nice sharp commercial hacksaw blade and make something like this which is a good start after you have drilled the initial holes for the tang. On another level getting good is simply a matter of looking for improvments you can make in every knife you make.

0dItMU7l.jpg
Awesome idea! Thanks!
 
I will expand on Von Gruffs idea!! Go to you local Mission where they sale donated items! These were cut from Old Hickory butcher knives! I think I paid $2.00 apiece for these!
Old Hickory.jpg

This is what they looked like after I cut them down. Take your time and cool often. Allow yourself more than you think you are going to need. The using a metal cutting blade, on a right angle grinder to get the general shape. The teeth are cut into the steel with a V file. Once cut in I sharpen the teeth at a 30* give or take angle! The teeth are sharpened #1 to the left, #2 to the right, basically like a hand saw is sharpened. The steel is good enough in the blades, (if you do not overheat the steel while cutting the shape) occasionally you may have to touch them up but they are good to go. And you can sharpen them so the cut on the push and the pull!!

Pics 2015 159_zpsymmwvvpq by Clifton Craft, on Flickr
 
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Something to consider. When I did my first (and only) hidden tang knife. I squared the shoulders for the guard up like you are doing. One of the more lernerd members on the forum told me that squaring these up like this prior to heat treat could cause a stress riser and possibly crack during heat treat? I got around it by edge quenching my blade so it didn't crack but I thought I would pass this on to you.
 
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Kevin what Gliden07 was talking about, where you got those square shoulders and the squared area at the ricasso, are bad juju!!! Like Gliden07 said. Think of it this way, take a round file and cut a rounded corner at those two points. It makes fitting a guard a bit more of a PITA but by rounding the corners in those three areas is best because with square corners that is a good area to create stress fractures at those areas!!

I have a blank out in the shop, that is similar. If I don't forget I will take a pic and post it for you to clarify what I am speaking of!! So this is what I was speaking of and I know the pics suck. My daughter has my good camera. The first is pic of a Bowie I am working on. The second pic is a close up. The area where the guard will be fitted the corners are rounded as well where the Ricasso area is. The second is a pic of another knife, and it has more pronounced rounded area at the Ricasso! I hope you can see what I am trying to show with this bad of pics!!


I am really sorry those pics are that bad. The only camera I had available, it take good pics outside but,...…….. that last one is real bad!!
 

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Kevin, I can completely sympathize with you on the from theory to practice gap. I'm a mechanical engineer and have no real training in machining other than tinkering with dad's tools all my life. It took some time to figure out that my measurements were only as good as the tool I was using. Once that realization was reached, things started to come into focus.
 
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