Grinder belt confusion

wmhammond

wmhammond

Well-Known Member
I'm such a nubee. I got my new 2 X 72 Pheer grinder and a bunch of new belts from trugrit. There are so many choices that I have no idea whats, what. They all seem OK to me but what do I know. Can anybody just simplify this for me and just tell me what to buy:

1. Just for knife grinding
2. for wood shaping

Thank you,

Wallace
 
Wallace
Go over to USAknifemaker site and look into the abrasive section. Bossdog (Tracy Mickley) published a very good article about abrasives.
DeMo
 
I'm a noob too but I can tell you one thing for certain. I struggled mightily with getting good grind lines and flat bevels on my 2x72 at first. I was trying to use J Flex belts. A mentor of mine suggested Trizact belts and it made an instantaneous improvement in my grinding. The thin J flex (klingspor) belts on a flat platen had so much splice bump I couldn't control it on flat grinds. The trizacts by comparison feel like laying the bevel on a flat piece of carpet. It was a crazy improvement for me.

Ceramic 36
Ceramic 60
Ceramic 120
Trizact CF A65 (220 equiv)
Trizact CF A45 (400 equiv)
Trizact CF A30 (600 equiv)

I still use the j flex belts for handles and all sorts of things- just not bevels on flat grinds.


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Another thing when grinding get you one of these http://www.harborfreight.com/catalogsearch/result?q=belt+cleaner that particular one is from HF but you can get them at any hardware store, including the box stores. All you do is hold it flat to the belt while the grinder is running and it will pull the debris right out of the belt. I bought some big and long ones from Rockler or Woodcraft.

http://www.woodcraft.com/search2/search.aspx?query=belt cleaner.

As you can see in the pic of the link, there is one backed with a stick. I buy 2x2x12 and made a double handled stick similar to the one in the pick but with out the knob on top and another handle on the other end. I cut it out of a scrap piece of about 3/8" thick oak I had laying around. Then I glued it to the stick with glue in a tube you use like liquid nails but not that brand, the good stuff, let dry and go to cleaning.

Anyway it allows you to work it with out getting the hands to close to the belt. The cleaners are cheap, with wood clean often, once the belt plugs the cleaner will only remove a little of the debris. They will also work for metal, I had never tried them for metal till I got into knife making!
 
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John Wilson said:
I'm a noob too but I can tell you one thing for certain. I struggled mightily with getting good grind lines and flat bevels on my 2x72 at first. I was trying to use J Flex belts. A mentor of mine suggested Trizact belts and it made an instantaneous improvement in my grinding. The thin J flex (klingspor) belts on a flat platen had so much splice bump I couldn't control it on flat grinds. The trizacts by comparison feel like laying the bevel on a flat piece of carpet. It was a crazy improvement for me.

Ceramic 36
Ceramic 60
Ceramic 120
Trizact CF A65 (220 equiv)
Trizact CF A45 (400 equiv)
Trizact CF A30 (600 equiv)

I still use the j flex belts for handles and all sorts of things- just not bevels on flat grinds.


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Click to expand...

Although it gets pricy, That's a line-up that can't be beat for clean consistent results. I take trizacs all the way up to 4500 if I want a fluid wet looking mirror polish but 2500or 3000 will do. Everyone I've recomended these belts to over the years never had a gripe....except for cost. If you don't muscle the belts and let them do what they're intended for, blending and refinement, they have a good service life. Let the ceramics do all the heavey lifting.


Rudy
 
Thank you, sir. I owe the belt selection to Bailey Bradshaw who has taken way too many phone calls from me for free.

I can't argue with the results. Like I said, I'm so new at this that I'm actually embarrassed to be posting instead of listening. But if my results are any indication, then absolutely ANYONE should be able to expect the improvement I've seen. I really mean it when I say that if I can do it, anyone can. Now, I'm still a long way from taking a blade right off the grinder and calling it done but I'm light years ahead of where I started. I can't tell you how rough that first batch of knives was. I think I did so much cleanup work with files and sandpaper that I wondered what in the world I bought a grinder for.

I think I tossed 2 belts start to finish on my last batch of knives. Those Trizacts just keep cutting if you treat them right. Like you said, if you let the ceramics do the work and let the Trizacts glide along, they'll clean up the flats without a single gripe. And they just keep on going knife after knife.
 
You guys are the best! this is exactly what I was looking for. Both suggestions are right on the money in what I was looking for. I ordered the Trizact (never heard of them before) yesterday and read the article also - great help. I'll let you know how the results work for me. Thanks again,

Wallace
 
Another question. I just went out and checked out my belts and I found that I had 1-A45 and 1-A30 made by 3M that I have never used. I also have several Norax belts made by Norton that essentially look the same as the Trizact. Does anyone know what the difference between these two kinds of belt is? Also, would it simplify matters to just decide on one manufacturer and just use their products or do I need several manufacturers to get all the things I need? Thanks,

Wallace
 
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Rudy Joly said:
Although it gets pricy, That's a line-up that can't be beat for clean consistent results. I take trizacs all the way up to 4500 if I want a fluid wet looking mirror polish but 2500or 3000 will do. Everyone I've recomended these belts to over the years never had a gripe....except for cost. If you don't muscle the belts and let them do what they're intended for, blending and refinement, they have a good service life. Let the ceramics do all the heavey lifting.


Rudy
Click to expand...

Rudy, thanks for your reply. What Trizact belts do you use above 600XF A30 953FA Trizact Structured Cubitron ll Ceramic? I can't find any Trizact ceramic belts above 600 Grit. Thanks,

Wallace
 
Wallace,
If Trizac makes it, I probably have them all. After 1200, you're pretty much there and I jump right to the 2500 3000 and 4500. Keep in mind at this point you're not removing steel, you're surface conditioning and it takes just a few passes per grit before hitting the buffer. If you're trying to push your grinder through the opposing wall.....you're doing the wrong thing with these belts. I also DON'T do this for every knife, 700 and 1200 is satisfactory for a 'bright' satin finish, my personal preference. To really know though, try them at least once and go by what your eye tells you. Like I said earlier, it's a pricey proposition but the results speak for themselves. Charge accordingly.

http://www.knifemaking.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=trizac+belts

If you're really mental about hand sanding....Trizac compounds also come in liquid form (quarts) for the automotive industry. Just in case.


Rudy
 
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I'm not trying to be a butthead, but I've gotta ask....why use 36 grit AND 60 grit belts? I did that at one time, but was able to eliminate both of those, by going to 50 grit for my "heavy grit" belts. Just curious.

I also had another knifemaker recommend to me to go straight from a 50 to a 400 (finish grinding)....and at first I thought he'd lost his marbles.....but at his insistance, I tried it, and although it initially seemed to take longer, after keeping an eye on the clock, I found that doing it not only saved me a couple of different grits of belts, but it routinely cuts 20-40 mins off my finish grinding process....by eliminating a couple of grit sizes and belt changes.
 
Everyone develops short cuts Ed, once you shake the "mandatory " belt progression mandate. I personally go from 120 to 320 before HT without a problem. In this case I think it's a good idea for the uninitiated to get a grasp of what they're actually chasing because it is so subjective. No two people see the same thing and they may see what it is they like along the way with a total disregard of what they've been told to look for. I don't know if that makes sense but I know what I meant. LOL. I think we all did the belt progression thing at one point only because it's the only advice we got....then we woke up.


Rudy
 
I suspect your right on the money Rudy! Sometimes I get so locked into my "box" that I forget to think at the lowest common denominator. :)
 
EdCaffreyMS said:
I suspect your right on the money Rudy! Sometimes I get so locked into my "box" that I forget to think at the lowest common denominator. :)
Click to expand...

Ed,
I don't think its a lowest denominator. I just think it works well to double grits and especially when guys are new its a lot to learn, so lets keep it simple. I've found in Sharpening that I can go from a 120 super flex to a 1200 grit Mylar 15 Micron belt without any troubles.

I couldn't do that the first couple of years that I did all of my sharpening on the 2 x 72" After a few years, I figured it out.
 
Ed, to answer your question since it seemed directed at me- or at least in reference to the belts I posted-

I only use the 36 grit for profiling, flattening, and for making the initial 45 to my scribed line.

I'm still at the stage where I would do kart wheels if I could take a knife to finished on the grinder. I still find deep scratches in my blade when I start hand sanding- scratches from low grits that I managed to miss over the course of several belt changes.

I'm just not ready to skip steps. I would probably wear out 9 400 grit belts trying to get rid of 60 grit scratches!

I'll be over the moon when I can finish a knife before I've used it's weight in sandpaper.


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