Grinders
- Thread starter Rick Otts
- Start date
Well I'm still waiting on my Pheer grinder, supposed to ship tomorrow, Woo hoo! But IMHO and I spent a ton of time researching them, both Wilmont and KMG put out a quality grinder. That said I dislike the wide platform on the KMG, too much real estate for my small shop. I like the front spring tension on the KMG. I dislike the rear spring tension on the Wilmont, I like the Wilmont's smaller real estate and the fact that it's easily flippable. The single speed issue is 'easily' fixed with a bit more money now or maybe as an upgrade later. I ponied up the dollars up front for the variable speed 2 hp option. Most reviews/comments I've come across indicate the variable speed is the way to go.
YMMV
YMMV
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
While I don't think that any grinder is going to be the "perfect" one for each individual (I'm the guy who takes a brand new grinder and makes minor modifications to suit my own tastes/needs), I can tell you that I've owned a KMG for over a dozen years. I have never had an issue with it, and while you might not recognize it immediately, the one thing that you will get with a KMG, versus EVERY other grinder I have ever used/touched/repaired, or otherwise had contact with, is the customer service that Rob Frink provides. In my mind, and experience, the KMG is just a "tank" of a grinder, that is simple in design, and works very well. (and keeps on working).
I've had experience with Wilmont grinders, and while I don't mean to "bad mouth" them on a public forum, my experiences with them have not been good. IF you were to purchase one, the first thing that I feel is absolutely necessary to change/replace is the belt tensioning....that tension spring simply does not work well at all (those machines with the "strut" may be different). I have a friend who purchased two of the TAG-101s, and a week after he got them, called me to help him "fix" them.....on one, the belt simply would not track, and on the other when pressure was applied to whatever was being ground, the belt would "jump" off one side of the other. After looking over the machines closely, I discovered that on one, none of the "wheels" were aligned, and on the other the tooling arm socket(s) were not square with the rest of the machine. I tried to get him to return the machines, but he didn't want to go through the "hassles" and insisted we try to "fix" them. Aligning all the wheels only took an hour or so, but I did have to shim some bolts, and used spacers on the platen roller and contact wheels to get the machine to track/run in an acceptable manner...... but I spent nearly a full day trying to "square up" the tooling arm socket(s). I also changed out the belt tensioning systems to a compression spring similar to what the KMG has, and that in itself made a huge difference.
Had I purchased those machines, I would have returned them for a refund and purchased another type/brand of grinder. It might have been just a "bad day" when they produced those particular machines, but what I saw, and what I had to do to a couple of "new" machines, left a very sour taste in my mouth.
OK, all that being said, I'm sure there are folks who have had great experiences with both machines, but as with most, I have to come at things through the lens of my own experiences.
When it comes to variable speed, as far as I'm concerned, if you are going to spend the money on a grinder and don't get a VFD, you're doing yourself in injustice. Early in my career I ran a single speed machine, and when I finally purchase a variable/VFD, I found myself wishing I had done it LONG before. A VFD/variable drive on a grinder simply gives you far more versatility then you could ever achieve with a single speed machine.
Another thing to consider is resale value. I've not seen how the resale value on the Wilmont grinders is, but I do know that a 10 year old KMG will bring nearly the same money as a brand new one.... meaning that if there is a point in time when you decide to sell it, a KMG will bring nearly the same money you paid for it new. My personal opinion is that between the two, there is simply no contest. I would go with the KMG and never look back.
I've had experience with Wilmont grinders, and while I don't mean to "bad mouth" them on a public forum, my experiences with them have not been good. IF you were to purchase one, the first thing that I feel is absolutely necessary to change/replace is the belt tensioning....that tension spring simply does not work well at all (those machines with the "strut" may be different). I have a friend who purchased two of the TAG-101s, and a week after he got them, called me to help him "fix" them.....on one, the belt simply would not track, and on the other when pressure was applied to whatever was being ground, the belt would "jump" off one side of the other. After looking over the machines closely, I discovered that on one, none of the "wheels" were aligned, and on the other the tooling arm socket(s) were not square with the rest of the machine. I tried to get him to return the machines, but he didn't want to go through the "hassles" and insisted we try to "fix" them. Aligning all the wheels only took an hour or so, but I did have to shim some bolts, and used spacers on the platen roller and contact wheels to get the machine to track/run in an acceptable manner...... but I spent nearly a full day trying to "square up" the tooling arm socket(s). I also changed out the belt tensioning systems to a compression spring similar to what the KMG has, and that in itself made a huge difference.
Had I purchased those machines, I would have returned them for a refund and purchased another type/brand of grinder. It might have been just a "bad day" when they produced those particular machines, but what I saw, and what I had to do to a couple of "new" machines, left a very sour taste in my mouth.
OK, all that being said, I'm sure there are folks who have had great experiences with both machines, but as with most, I have to come at things through the lens of my own experiences.
When it comes to variable speed, as far as I'm concerned, if you are going to spend the money on a grinder and don't get a VFD, you're doing yourself in injustice. Early in my career I ran a single speed machine, and when I finally purchase a variable/VFD, I found myself wishing I had done it LONG before. A VFD/variable drive on a grinder simply gives you far more versatility then you could ever achieve with a single speed machine.
Another thing to consider is resale value. I've not seen how the resale value on the Wilmont grinders is, but I do know that a 10 year old KMG will bring nearly the same money as a brand new one.... meaning that if there is a point in time when you decide to sell it, a KMG will bring nearly the same money you paid for it new. My personal opinion is that between the two, there is simply no contest. I would go with the KMG and never look back.
TacticallySharp
KNIFE MAKER
Single speed Wilmont generally means a Little Buddy. Their entry level smaller machine. Their TAG grinder is the one to compare to. You can call and get a price on a LB in variable speed too.
I've used both and each has it's strong points. Between them I prefer the the Wilmont TAG.
Now Jose at Phere grinders has a new direct drive grinder that is good, and priced at a very competitive price. His customer service is personal and great.
I'm looking at his 9" disk unit for my shop now.
I've used both and each has it's strong points. Between them I prefer the the Wilmont TAG.
Now Jose at Phere grinders has a new direct drive grinder that is good, and priced at a very competitive price. His customer service is personal and great.
I'm looking at his 9" disk unit for my shop now.
John Wilson
Well-Known Member
I have .00000% of Ed's experience. However, I do have 25 years in industrial automation and engineering experience and believe my opinion to be worth sharing since we're talking machines here.
I have a variable speed KMG, the only 2x72 I've ever used. I love the KMG. I don't have a bad thing to say about it. However, like every man-made design it has strengths and weaknesses. I did not fully appreciate the value of being flippable when I bought it. Now that I have discovered the huge benefit that horizontal grinding would offer (getting things square without bending my back at right angles to watch my grind from the side, for instance) I sincerely wish the KMG was flippable. I have seen mods to do it. The mods are not nearly as elegant or simple as having a machine where this feature was designed into the machine from the jump.
Also: What Ed said is absolutely crucial for any machine... You MUST square and shim the wheels and tool arms / tools when you initially set the machine up. That is true for any and every machine you buy. That's on you. You mount all the stuff when the machine is unboxed. My KMG flat platen tool arm needed significant shimming and alignment work to have the belt line up on the same track as with my other two tool arms. The angle mounts for the flat platen were not actually square and caused my platen to be out of flush with the belt from left to right. (One side of the belt touching the platen, the other side being slack)
If you can make knives, you can solve all of these problems. Do not expect any machine to come to you needing no alignment or final fitting. Your final accuracy will depend on your own attention to detail in the machine setup, in my opinion.
I have a variable speed KMG, the only 2x72 I've ever used. I love the KMG. I don't have a bad thing to say about it. However, like every man-made design it has strengths and weaknesses. I did not fully appreciate the value of being flippable when I bought it. Now that I have discovered the huge benefit that horizontal grinding would offer (getting things square without bending my back at right angles to watch my grind from the side, for instance) I sincerely wish the KMG was flippable. I have seen mods to do it. The mods are not nearly as elegant or simple as having a machine where this feature was designed into the machine from the jump.
Also: What Ed said is absolutely crucial for any machine... You MUST square and shim the wheels and tool arms / tools when you initially set the machine up. That is true for any and every machine you buy. That's on you. You mount all the stuff when the machine is unboxed. My KMG flat platen tool arm needed significant shimming and alignment work to have the belt line up on the same track as with my other two tool arms. The angle mounts for the flat platen were not actually square and caused my platen to be out of flush with the belt from left to right. (One side of the belt touching the platen, the other side being slack)
If you can make knives, you can solve all of these problems. Do not expect any machine to come to you needing no alignment or final fitting. Your final accuracy will depend on your own attention to detail in the machine setup, in my opinion.
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John Wilson
Well-Known Member
They are only headaches if you don't expect them. If you know what to look for you can get it right from the start instead of fighting through issues to figure it out.
EdCaffreyMS
"The Montana Bladesmith"
I suppose that's something I should have mentioned..... even when purchasing a new machine, "checking it out" is a necessity. There is always at least a little bit of tweaking that's required. But with the price that most of the available grinders cost, I expect to have to do very little of it. 
Which was the main reason I got such a sour attitude towards "some" machines.
Which was the main reason I got such a sour attitude towards "some" machines.