How to blow things up!

NJStricker

Well-Known Member
Well, hopefully the title caught your attention.

I've been perusing the threads through the business section here, and there's a lot of good advice on good things to do for your business--pricing strategies, dealing with customers, taking deposits, etc.

We can all point to makers in the last 5 years that have done it. They've built up their business over time, and one or two bad mistakes later, it's all gone.

How about a thread on what NOT to do? What is the fastest way to blow up your knife business?
 
Hey NJ,

Most makers do not treat their knife making as a business. By not applying basic business principles the knife maker will consistently seem to be relying on "hope". In that they "hope" they are doing the right thing. Asking fellow makers for advise (who may or may not have any business experience). Generally you see this with regards to pricing.

Makers almost without exception will tell the fellow maker...they are too cheap. Most makers not knowing any better raise their prices.

My response to the maker who is told by another maker his knives are too cheap...ask them how many they want to buy. When they say they don't buy knives....that will be your first clue.

It is imperative for a maker to figure out their position in the market. This will show them where they stand...making it incredibly easy to price their knives. This allows the maker to now identify makers who are in the top 10 of that market....actual top ten..not flavors of the month. Talk with those makers...not about price point..but how they marketed their knives to create the demand for their work.

Next...making what you want...and not what the buyers want.

Being an artist/craftsman is an important part of the success equation...but it is not more important then being able to sell the knives. There are a lot of makers out there who have the best collection of their work!
 
Les,

There have been a number of threads where "position in the market" has been mentioned. How do you suggest a new maker goes about determining that? How would you define it? I imagine that a number of characteristics are involved--type of purchaser (collector vs. user), art knife vs. working knife, materials used, name recognition, and of course fit & finish.

"Next...making what you want...and not what the buyers want.
Being an artist/craftsman is an important part of the success equation...but it is not more important then being able to sell the knives."

Your quote here seems contradictory to itself, and maybe there is a balance point between making what you want (as an artist/craftsman) vs. making a product that is desirable by the knife buying community. Obviously if a maker specializes in titanium Klingon space daggers then he is placing himself in a very narrow market. At the same time, there are fads among the buyers that seem irresistable. In the last 5 years or so, if you were a new maker building knives in the $100-300 range and you didn't have a Ray Mears style bushcraft or a Nessmuk in your lineup, you were potentially missing out on some sales. I can see that if you have a design of your own that is not too radical & that is popular with buyers it is not too far of a stretch to provide the same design with features that a buyer wants (scales, mosaic pins, etc.).

But where do you suggest a new maker draws the line between "making what you want" and chasing the latest fad to keep the sales coming (given that a new maker is, at a minimum, trying to keep up supplies & equipment without putting too much of a strain on the family budget). I'm assuming that this would fall somewhere in the discussion about "short term profits vs. longevity in the business."
 
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Hi NJ,

I was actually writing that a quick way to end a career in custom knives is to make what you want to make...and not what the buyers want. Over the last 25 years I have heard maker after maker loudly and proudly proclaim...They make only what they want! Most of those makers are long gone.

Those same makers will also lament:

1) Why don't I win Awards? Usually because your knives aren't good enough or fit into any particular category (read gaudy looking)

2) Why don't dealers work with me? Usually because there is little or no demand for the makers work. But more to the point these makers are slow to take suggestions/advice on how to make their knives more marketable. Given the amount of makers compared to dealers...why would a dealer waste their money and time on this type of maker.

3) Why don't I get articles? Because more than likely you are not attending major shows, advertising and having professional photos taken that can be used in magazines. When I first started as a writer for the magazines I went out of my way to try and put photographers and makers together at shows. I have stopped doing that...it is now incumbent on the maker to get the photos for the article.

The objective of any business is to make a profit...even non-profits (which is a tax status not a business entity). If you are not making a profit...you will eventually go out of business. You may still be a knife maker...just one that loses money on every knife.

My feeling is that a maker should build knives that best represents/show cases their skill set. That is the artisan/craftsman aspect. You then have to combine that with what materials are currently in demand. I am still amazed at how many makers use brass and nickel silver. There is a place for those materials...but that is generally when building knives that are copies of antiques or factory knives. Some factories uses brass, such as Randall. That is because they have a long history of building particular knives with brass. People have seen that for years...and that is what they want. Doesn't bother Randall that brass is CHEAP and easy to work.

Last is the price! This goes back to understanding your position in the market. I created a matrix while in Graduate School...it took me about 100 hours to create this. Then again I was looking at every maker out there...that I had heard of. I have told a couple of makers about it...and they felt it was either too hard and or time consuming...easier just to ask another maker or guess.

A maker should right off the bat be able to use basic cost accounting:

Cost of Steel + Cost of guard/bolster + Cost of handle material + Cost of shop time (this will include fixed and variable costs) + Cost of sheath (if there is one). Then add what you need to get for your time. Come up with a cost. Now go and compare that to other makers building a similar knife. If you are more than better known makers...you should lower your price. You can choose not to...you will just not sell as many knives as you would like.

This comes into play even more so when you start talking about Gross and Net profit! Most people don't know the difference.

I have had this conversation with more makers than I can remember who sold out at shows...and lost money. They tell me they made $3,000 (Gross). I then ask them did you deduct the cost of the table, air fare/ gas for the car, cabs, food, hotel? Once you have deducted all of that, did you deduct material(s) cost, belts, shop costs? Now you have your Net profit. It is at that point that many realize they lost money coming to the show...or made .25Cents an hour for their labor.

This the main reason that about 98% of the knife makers in the world are part-timers.

As someone who has been full time in the Custom Knife Business for the last 16 years...I can tell you it is not easy.

For me the time spent on the Matrix has been invaluable...I can price just about any knife from any maker with no problem. Well there is one problem...when I price a knife it is what it should sell for...not necessarily what the maker wants for it.

A "game" that collectors and myself play is look at the knife on a table...guess the price. Then turn the knife over and look at the price.

If the price is too high..you set the knife down and walk away. If the price is right or below what you think it should sell for...pick up a couple other knives on that table and see if the prices are where they should be on those. I call this a "Value Price". For me if I see that...I start talking with the maker.

Then there are the makers who don't let you play the game...they don't put a price on their knives. They are from the "Don't price them and get them to talk to you". The truth is generally they don't know what to price the knives at. They are hoping to throw out a price and the customer will let them know if it right or not.

It is the same with websites, my experience has been that without exception the makers who do not price their knives on the website...when you do ask them for a price...are too expensive for their position in the market. I have had several tell me..."That is what they have to get". Question is how long are you willing to wait to get that price? There is something that then comes into play called the "Time Value of Money". Basically the money tied up in inventory cannot be spent to purchase (materials, belts, etc) to make the next knife. The longer the knife sits there the higher your "Opportunity Costs" go up. Opportunity cost:

The cost of passing up the next best choice when making a decision. For example, if an asset such as capital is used for one purpose, the opportunity cost is the value of the next best purpose the asset could have been used for. Opportunity cost analysis is an important part of a company's decision-making processes, but is not treated as an actual cost in any financial statement.
.

For most makers it is about making a knife and selling it and buying more materials. Nothing wrong with that, makes for a very nice hobby.
 
Hi Chad,

Thank you.

Let me add this, so some may not think I am to harsh. Ultimately, it your business. Your success or lack there of is completely up to you. As you are responsible for every thing...good...bad...or indifferent.
 
I'm telling you right now that's not how you blow things up! ;)

Les Robertson, is in fact a big meany ( :) ).... He is, however right more times than he's wrong...
 
Thanks for all the good info, Les R!

I studied (among other things) conflict resolution and negotiation in grad school, so I fully grasp the Opportunity Costs. For a maker to understand the Opportunity Costs it all goes back to understanding--yep--position in the market. If you have all of your resources tied up in your product, and you've priced your knives too high, then the likelihood of a sale drops, which means the Opportunity Costs go up.

I think the other lesson there is that, from a business standpoint, a maker needs to keep themselves in a position to take advantage of Opportunities. From a capital standpoint I suppose this pretty much means don't invest all of your money into supplies and your knife inventory. When that deal that's too good to pass up comes along, you're prepared. And let's not get started about emergencies (motor blows up, an investment goes south, etc.). Several times a year I see people selling off knives at a discount to go buy a piece of equipment that has suddenly become available.

I guess another business lesson is to plan ahead--know what opportunities you are looking for. If you know you want to add certain pieces of equipment to your shop--but not really shopping around--then you need to put yourself in the position to take advantage of the good deals.

I think for a lot of makers, the "business" is merely 1) make a knife 2) sell the knife 3) make another knife, and repeat.
 
That is not a business....that is a hobby.

I agree, and I think that's why NJ put "business" in quotes. I'll take it even a step further... it's not a hobby, it's a money pit.

Quality steel and handle material is often the least expensive part of making a knife. Seriously now... how many knives do you have to sell just to break even on your grinder, belts, hand-tools, HT oven/quench tank/etc (or shipping blades to-and-fro to have a pro do it), sheaths (buy 'em? make 'em? more tools, materials and time invested learning to do it properly), etcher/stencils or tang stamp, electricity, running power to your garage and installing HVAC so you can work regardless of weather, forum memberships/advertising, "wasted" materials and time from blades that just didn't turn out well enough to see the light of day... it can be daunting. Some guys forget that stuff completely and wind up bitter about losing fistfuls of cash, some get spooked and charge too much trying to make it back quickly.

A hobbyist would likely be better off making pens or quilts, if money is a serious concern.

I don't mean to discourage anyone (or myself for that matter), just trying to be realistic. "It's a long way to the top if you wanna rock'n'roll." I don't think custom knifemaking is a get-rich kind of endeavor.

Anyway, on how to ruin your knife hobby/business... one way for sure is to get far behind on an order due to personal stuff, completely blow a deadline and fail to communicate properly with the client. I learned this the hard way. Although the situation has long since been resolved and the client is now very pleased, it still bothers me. I'll do my very best to never let that happen again. Even if it means declining an order if I have any doubts about delivering on time.
 
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Hi James,

First, nice AC/DC reference!

I don't think custom knifemaking is a get-rich kind of endeavor.

Very few endeavors are.

That being said, to be able to do something you love for a profession, provide for your family and be able to spend time with people who ultimately become friends....ain't bad! :D
 
First, nice AC/DC reference!
Thanks for understanding! I think it fits pretty well in this context. "It's harder than it looks!"

RE: "get rich"

That being said, to be able to do something you love for a profession, provide for your family and be able to spend time with people who ultimately become friends....ain't bad! :D

I wholeheartedly agree. We all must decide for ourselves what "wealth" and "success" truly mean. I've often said that if I only cared about quick money, I'd deal drugs instead of working. But I don't want to harm anyone and I get a lot of enjoyment out of learning something everyday and taking pride in what I love to do. I'm frankly astounded by the encouragement "knife people" (makers, dealers, clients, writers, collectors, the whole community) offer to anyone who works hard to better themselves and the craft/business in general.

No honest man ever laid on his death-bed and declared, "I wish I'd spent more time chasing a dollar, and less time with my family and friends."
 
how to make a small fortune in knife making ? .............. Start with a large fortune!!
 
Sorry for the somewhat late bump
As I am running a business where money needs to be made
I sometimes think different in some methods knife makers follow,
I would like to ask your opinion in this,

A custom knife maker has a 7 year order book,
I say, your know selling, now is the time to harvest, no telling in the 7 years how many people will lose interest
Hire in skilled labor / machines / make a deal with blank cutters ,
Do the finishing yourself because this is your selling point,
But take measures to step up in production.
Is this selling out your name ?

Other case, a custom knife makers makes big camp knives and as a gift throws in a piggy back skeleton knife. Which can be attached to the sheet
But as business picks up, has very a hard time to follow true with the orders.
The “gift” knives take up a lot of time.
I say draw it in cad/cam and let someone cut a box full of blanks for you.
So the focus can be pointed more to making the big custom knife,
Is this non ethical for a complete Blade Smith / custom Knife maker ? who forges and douse his own heat treatment

Best regards, martin
 
spending more time designing a logo and Tshirts than working on design, fit and finish of your knives...
 
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