Just a word on Husky files from Home Depot

[C Craft]

Speaking for myself only, I'll agree to disagree about the part about indefinitely returning a consumable item that dulls, under the premise that it has "failed." That being said, obviously everyone is else is free to do as they please.

If Home Depot has no problem with it, then you have your answer already.

Sam

Everything in life is a, "consumable", even us. Most of our American companies have meant their own ruination! Go back and read about the history of Nicholson File. It was a proud American heritage story but, even they cousumed another company to come out on top.

http://www.charleswbullock.com/Guide/IndustryHistry/NicholsonFile/NicholsonFile.html

To think where they are today, I am sure some of the founders of that proud heritage, would roll over in their graves, if someone gave them a Nicholson file today!

These major companies such as Home Depot and Lowes have their own line and it is touted as a "Lifetime Warranty". You want to know why!

It is a marketing gimmick with calulated risk. The average consumer is never going to bring it back at all. And if someone does make them live up to the "Lifetime Warranty" they are willing to do that, because that is not the norm!!

Big companies have been taking calulated risks for many years. They use ingredients that they know are cancer causing. Why, because their product is cheaper to make using that often known cancer causing ingredient, from the get-go!!!.
So they roll the dice and say well,............ we are gonna kill of X amount of people but the sales will give us a cushion if we ever have to pay out for the human lives that will be lost because.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! If you knowingly kill someone in the real world, that can be considered Manslaughter of Second Degree Murder. However when the big companies do it, they face lawsuits and more often than not no one is ever held accountable!!! All the money in the world does not bring back even one life!! To the big companies, it is just the cost of doing business!
Did you ever wonder why a huge company such as Dupoint blew out their name and all the profits they made under that name. Dupoint has been put on the hook for cancer causing teflon, among a few other products. They knew allmost immediately that it was cancer causing, But they rolled the dice and when it came down to time to pay the piper! Low and behold Dupoint has little to no assets and a company known as Axalta was born. A seperate enity of the old Dupoint but on paper it can not be touched for the sins of Dupoint!!! The company is quetly settling lawsuits to keep out of the news and when the money is gone and they no longer have to money to pay claims. Well it is all over and Dupoint will officially be dead! Tough luck if you came to table to late!!

Look at Sears and what they have done and, it is about to cost them! A company that partenered with and eventually consumed Roebuck, and a company that was consemed by a company coming out of bankruptcy Kmart. They still take back some tools but Craftsman is a seperate entity, and they are being made in China. The old Craftsman rachets I have, will outlast me. The newer ones I have returned many times because they are crap!!

OK, I am off my soap box but, believe this those companies that make consumables that get dull, when they have enough they will stop honoring their warranties. For now they will ride that calulated risk as far as they can!!!

 

[Sam Wilson]

Amazingly enough, I understand those things. My point was based on a premise, the premise of doing something because you believe in it personally, not just whether or not you can get away with it, and whatever any big company or other individual does to lower the bar should have no effect on it. Principles, and not a sliding scale dictated by other's actions, right or wrong.

I'll leave it at that, and thank you all for your time.

Sam

Everything in life is a, "consumable", even us. Most of our American companies have meant their own ruination! Go back and read about the history of Nicholson File. It was a proud American heritage story but, even they cousumed another company to come out on top.

http://www.charleswbullock.com/Guide/IndustryHistry/NicholsonFile/NicholsonFile.html

To think where they are today, I am sure some of the founders of that proud heritage, would roll over in their graves, if someone gave them a Nicholson file today!

These major companies such as Home Depot and Lowes have their own line and it is touted as a "Lifetime Warranty". You want to know why!

It is a marketing gimmick with calulated risk. The average consumer is never going to bring it back at all. And if someone does make them live up to the "Lifetime Warranty" they are willing to do that, because that is not the norm!!

Big companies have been taking calulated risks for many years. They use ingredients that they know are cancer causing. Why, because their product is cheaper to make using that often known cancer causing ingredient, from the get-go!!!.
So they roll the dice and say well,............ we are gonna kill of X amount of people but the sales will give us a cushion if we ever have to pay out for the human lives that will be lost because.

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaat! If you knowingly kill someone in the real world, that can be considered Manslaughter of Second Degree Murder. However when the big companies do it, they face lawsuits and more often than not no one is ever held accountable!!! All the money in the world does not bring back even one life!! To the big companies, it is just the cost of doing business!
View attachment 61686 Did you ever wonder why a huge company such as Dupoint blew out their name and all the profits they made under that name. Dupoint has been put on the hook for cancer causing teflon, among a few other products. They knew allmost immediately that it was cancer causing, But they rolled the dice and when it came down to time to pay the piper! Low and behold Dupoint has little to no assets and a company known as Axalta was born. A seperate enity of the old Dupoint but on paper it can not be touched for the sins of Dupoint!!! The company is quetly settling lawsuits to keep out of the news and when the money is gone and they no longer have to money to pay claims. Well it is all over and Dupoint will officially be dead! Tough luck if you came to table to late!!

Look at Sears and what they have done and, it is about to cost them! A company that partenered with and eventually consumed Roebuck, and a company that was consemed by a company coming out of bankruptcy Kmart. They still take back some tools but Craftsman is a seperate entity, and they are being made in China. The old Craftsman rachets I have, will outlast me. The newer ones I have returned many times because they are crap!!

OK, I am off my soap box but, believe this those companies that make consumables that get dull, when they have enough they will stop honoring their warranties. For now they will ride that calulated risk as far as they can!!!

 

[C Craft]

Sam, and I hear you about the principles but, in my opinion those companies have to adhere to that as well! When you throw out "Lifetime Warranty" then you must honor that. If you want to limit the returnability of the product then you say Limited Lifetime Warranty. Which you can then class that as covering fair wear and tear!

I am glad that you feel yourself an honorable man and you feel it is against your pinciples to return what you consider a consumeable!

I myself feel, I am an honorable man as well. However when I spend my hard earned money to buy a file and it wears out in the making of a knife or two. You as the big company have taken advantage of my honorable nature.

Files do not have to be consumeables. The old files were made well enough that they lasted for years when taken care of properly and there is still a place today where you can send them and have them re-cut!!! I have a file that belonged to my father. Don't know how long ago it was purchased but he passed it too me and I am 60 years of age. I sent it and about a dozen others out a while back and they came back looking like new files and they cut like them too!!

As stated before that company that says "Lifetime Warranty" nowdays is taking a calculated risk, all on their own, only their greed has forced them do it!!!!!!!

Enough said, I never try to cut anyone down for their principles!!

 

[EdCaffreyMS]

Sam, Just to let you know, I admire your principles in the matter, and in no way look down on your point of view, I think for me it stems from the fact that I have been doing this for a lot of years, so I've watched tools go from being quality items, to a minimum acceptable quality level, and it's very frustrating. Back in the day when Nicholson files were all I would purchase, I had no qualms about paying the money, because the tool would be usable and last for a good long while. But, as with most companies, Nicholson has caved in, and like most others, has gone to a "spec manufacturing" model..... meaning that the top priority is cost savings in manufacturing, with quality standards taking a back seat.

Over the years I have watched quality standards of tools get lesser and lesser, and watched the prices go up and up. That phenomenon has definitely changed my attitude in the direction of..... if a company is going to knowingly put out the least quality they can get away with, and is going to warranty the item forever, then I am going to utilize it to my best advantage. I suppose for me, having come up during an era when quality of given tool brands was priority, then watched the decline of quality in favor of chasing $$$, it makes me feel slighted, and somewhat frustrated. We could certainly toss it back and forth forever, but as you said, let's just agree to disagree and be friends.

 

[seber]

I can see both sides of this argument, but filing hardened steel is serious abuse of the tool. For doing that I use a diamond abrasive file. Like any tool they are available in various degrees of quality as well as grit.

 

[C Craft]

Seber I do not agree one use, is serious abuse on a file, but too each his own!!!

By the way I rarely file after the steel has been hardened!! I do 99% of my filing while the steel is in the annealed state!!

Something that I haven't brought out before. When I asked both my local Lowes and Home Depot if they would stand behind their lifetime warranty due to wear on their files. One said flat No and the other him-hawed over the question. The one who said no, went so far as to tell me he did consider that fair wear and tear. I told him in no uncertain terms when you get one use of a file that is not fair wear and tear! So I don't buy files from either one!

You see I don't mind paying for quality but when there is no quality to buy short of giving up an arm and leg, then you got to with what you can.

I have files that belonged to my father, they were close to twice as thick as the files nowdays and the steel in them was good enough to be re-sharpened many years later! In fact when they came back the company that sharpened them said they could be sharpened at a later date again. They grind off all the old teeth and re-cut them again. At least that is my understanding of how it is done. Otherwise you can't get rid of any broken teeth/lines!!!

No one makes these companies honor that warranty except for their greed. The Lifetime Warranty is a sales gimmick and when they have enough of returns they will stop honoring their warranty!!

 

[bladegrinder]

I've been following this and maybe I missed it but who said they were using these files on hardened steel?
I don't think it's even plausible to file bevels on a knife or anything else for that matter after its been heat treated and hardened.
I don't use files much except for decorative filework in the annealed state...am I missing something here?

 

[Sam Wilson]

I've been following this and maybe I missed it but who said they were using these files on hardened steel?
I don't think it's even plausible to file bevels on a knife or anything else for that matter after its been heat treated and hardened.
I don't use files much except for decorative filework in the annealed state...am I missing something here?

This is the file set: http://www.homedepot.com/p/Husky-Flat-Curve-Assortment-File-Set-10-Piece-22105HD/100091245

They wear fairly well on annealed steel. I tend to wear then out whenever I have to dress up the shoulders on hidden tangs, post heat treat. To keep track of the receipt, I just make a slit in the packaging with my pocket knife....and slip the receipt in there. When I remove the files I don't destroy the packaging....just cut it enough to get each file out.... then when its worn out, I slip it back into the package. I only use aboout 4-5 of the files in the set.... but for the price and the warranty....why not!?

 

[C Craft]

I can see both sides of this argument, but filing hardened steel is serious abuse of the tool. For doing that I use a diamond abrasive file. Like any tool they are available in various degrees of quality as well as grit.

This is the post! I highlighted the text in blue!

 

[bladegrinder]

Sorry, I read passed that and missed it.

 

[Smallshop]

I can see both sides of this argument, but filing hardened steel is serious abuse of the tool. For doing that I use a diamond abrasive file. Like any tool they are available in various degrees of quality as well as grit.

I have 70 yr old files that I treat like treasures. I also buy harbor freight files and use them for anything and then toss them when dull (which happens quickly).

Why?

because most files made currently are made with quick profit in mind...not longevity. I do not consider an abrasive tool with not much more life in it than a sheet of sandpaper any different than a sheet of sandpaper...it is a consumable. Caring for it like an antique Nicholson won't give it any more performance than has been designed into it. That is also why the price is so cheap on most files.

You really cannot "abuse" a cheap file....lol.

 

[Rick Otts]

Some people like to run a conversation into the ground.

 

[12345678910]

Steve: I can certainly see where you're coming from. It could certainly be viewed in that manner. Until I read your post, I'd never considered it in that context.

We all come at things through the lens of our own experience, and my mindset is that I warranty my knives for life, and will repair or replace, as long as I am physically able to do so....with the exception of abuse.... which I clearly state in my warranty information.

When I see the "Guaranteed FOREVER" on the file set's packaging, that means it's either A: They are Built to last a lifetime, or B: They are willing to replace the item(s) if it wears out. The exact wording is "If your Husky hand tool ever fails, bring it back and we will replace it Free." That's the manufacturer's/retailer's option....... I assume that if there were conditions (referencing hobbyist versus professional use) , it would be stated.

I suspect that if Husky starts putting conditions on their warranty, the way Craftsman did, Husky tools will suffer the same fate as Craftsman/Sears.

They have already done that.

They only warranty recent tools. Husky tools before a certain year or model number don't qualify.