My forge build.....WIP......it's going to take a while!

In the end I can't imagine it not doing well, has to be better than my old little my Matheson forge anyway. I was thinking 1/4-20 but the tubing wall is fairly thin and I had some short 1/4-28 bolts anyway.

I've been welding since I was about 14 or so. I spent approximately the last 30 years fabricating all kinds of stuff as a side line for so many people I've lost track. Not that I consider myself a real welder by any stretch, and I almost never weld anything round, I work hard to stay in position. So don't look too closely at those welds! ;)

I happy to be bringing a smile to your life! I'm having fun as well, just how I pictured retirement. Though there were a few choice words involved fitting that burner support tube! o_O
 
Yep, you gonna have a GREAT forge for sure. I started burning rods around 14 to 16 yr old myself on the farm. Paid most of my way thru college burning welding rods, and then first job out of college was as welder in an electrical industrial construction crew. After moving on boat, and moving to management I didn't do any welding to speak of for the next 30 yrs. Just started to burn rods about in the last couple of years.

YES!!! Retirement is GREAT. Some folks keep saying what a cultural shock retirement is moving from working full time to retired full time. In order not to suffer that cultural shock I start preparing early. From around 35 yr old every few yrs my wife and I would take 1 to 1-1/2 years off work and go cruising thru the Islands, central America and stuff. Then starting about 5 yr before full retirement I started taking off a few months each year, starting with 3 or 4 months off, then last couple of years taking 5 ot 6 months off work. As a result, retirement has been no problem for me - enjoying the heck out of retirement. Wife sometimes fusses at me for spending too much time outside, saying I need to come in at night at least to watch TV with her.

Yes, I really am enjoying retirement. About the only problem I can see is not worrying about 20 yr warranty on anything.
 
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KenH said:
Yep, you gonna have a GREAT forge for sure. I started burning rods around 14 to 16 yr old myself on the farm. Paid most of my way thru college burning welding rods, and then first job out of college was as welder in an electrical industrial construction crew. After moving on boat, and moving to management I didn't do any welding to speak of for the next 30 yrs. Just started to burn rods about in the last couple of years.
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Interesting! I haven't heard the term burning rods in some time! I haven't actually burnt a rod since the early 90's. Once I bought my first MIG I sold off the buzz box. I put my way through college doing lawn maintenance....


KenH said:
YES!!! Retirement is GREAT. Some folks keep saying what a cultural shock retirement is moving from working full time to retired full time. In order not to suffer that cultural shock I start preparing early. From around 35 yr old every few yrs my wife and I would take 1 to 1-1/2 off work and go cruising thru the Islands, central America and stuff. Then starting about 5 yr before full retirement I started taking off a few months each year, starting with 3 or 4 months off, then last couple of years taking 5 ot 6 months off work. As a result, retirement has been no problem for me - enjoying the heck out of retirement. Wife sometimes fusses at me for spending too much time outside, saying I need to come in at night at least to watch TV with her.

Yes, I really am enjoying retirement. About the only problem I can see is not worrying about 20 yr warranty on anything.
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Cruising the islands, I envy that. I grew up pretty much land locked, never spent much time on the water. Interestingly enough I've recently developed an interest in sailing YouTubes. We recently did a 4 hour sail out of San Deigo looking for whales. We didn't see any whales but we did see the USS Zumwalt... though we were advised not to get too close.

drive.google.com

DSC_0161.JPG

drive.google.com drive.google.com

As for retirement I get a lotta of question of what will you do with all that time? My reply is what time! I'm feel busier now than when I was working 40 hours a week!
 
Well, my thinking was for the tip of ceramic sheath to be around an inch inside the insulation, and located about mid point of forge body, and on the same side as the burner tube. Reason for same side was so the tip would be completely out of direct flame, and reading more of the actual forge temperature. If the direct flame hits the ceramic sheath it will be too hot causing the ceramic to break, don't ask me how I know :)
 
I sure hope Ed has read this thread and feels my advice to you is ok. I KNOW my experience level is too low to be giving lots of building advice. I'm pretty sure what I've said is good, but it'd be good to have Ed (and others) chime in to say "good advice" or "do it this way instead".

BTW, what blower do you have?
 
Unfortunately I have a little 'almost free' Dayton blower. I know it's the "wrong" one but if I have to upgrade later so be it!

No worries Ken, I appreciate your advice and all the time you spent answering my questions. If I mess it up it's on me. Education is rarely free!
 
Looking good. I didn't realize you were going for a PID controlled forge. OR, is the PID for temp indication only? If for control, what do you plan to control - gas flow? Air flow?

On the Dayton blower, it might be a tad on the small side for the 1.5" burner tube. You do need to provide at least a minimum airflow thru the tube, and nope, I don't have a clue what that speed is. The blower I have is spec'd at 125cfm, but I don't have a clue what the actual air flow is. I think I have linked to it before: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NQDNRK and once the forge is up to heat I close off the choke completely, and sometimes even use a speed controller to slow blower down some more. This is the cheap speed controller I ordered, and it does work, at least for the price ($11) it works :) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TDHWHYL/
 
KenH said:
Looking good. I didn't realize you were going for a PID controlled forge. OR, is the PID for temp indication only? If for control, what do you plan to control - gas flow? Air flow?

On the Dayton blower, it might be a tad on the small side for the 1.5" burner tube. You do need to provide at least a minimum airflow thru the tube, and nope, I don't have a clue what that speed is. The blower I have is spec'd at 125cfm, but I don't have a clue what the actual air flow is. I think I have linked to it before: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B071NQDNRK and once the forge is up to heat I close off the choke completely, and sometimes even use a speed controller to slow blower down some more. This is the cheap speed controller I ordered, and it does work, at least for the price ($11) it works :) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07TDHWHYL/
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PID for temperature indication only.

Since you mentioned it I've been noodling the blower issues. Per the design in my head if I go with a more traditional blacksmith blower like yours I'd have to have 2 elbows from the blower to the forge. Not sure that matters especially if the blower is a big honking blower like yours. The little dayton is rated at like 54 cfm IIRC, less than half of yours. I've actually ordered that speed control per your earlier link.

So I assume even if you close off the choke you still have some airflow?
 
My blower isn't exactly a "big honking" blower, it's smaller than the usual blower that's used. My blower is certainly cheaper than those "big honking" blowers like this: https://www.centaurforge.com/Centaur-PB50VS-Blower-with-Speed-Control/productinfo/PB/

I understand this is more like the normal blower used: https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/forge-fan-fuel/blowers.html/forge-blower-3.html it's 180 CFM at $195 shipped. When I purchased my blower it was $78 shipped on Amazon and seems to be all that's needed.

CFM rating isn't the only thing to be concerned about, main thing is have air flow when blowing against backpressure.

Yes, my blower still has decent flow with damper closed completely off. I've fully closed damper and still use speed controller to slow fan even more with gas turned down and hold 1900F AFTER the forge gets hot. After the forge is fully hot (bright orange inside) it burns much better.

As mentioned before, how much the air flow can be turned down will depend to some extent on size of burner tube - that is my understanding anyway. I plan to stick a 1" pipe inside my 1.25" pipe just to test how it would run with a 1" burner tube, just have not had a chance yet. One of those things to do when I get around to it.
 
KenH said:
My blower isn't exactly a "big honking" blower, it's smaller than the usual blower that's used. My blower is certainly cheaper than those "big honking" blowers like this: https://www.centaurforge.com/Centaur-PB50VS-Blower-with-Speed-Control/productinfo/PB/
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Sry just talking in comparison to my little Dayton!

KenH said:
I understand this is more like the normal blower used: https://www.blacksmithsdepot.com/products/forge-fan-fuel/blowers.html/forge-blower-3.html it's 180 CFM at $195 shipped. When I purchased my blower it was $78 shipped on Amazon and seems to be all that's needed.

CFM rating isn't the only thing to be concerned about, main thing is have air flow when blowing against backpressure.

................

As mentioned before, how much the air flow can be turned down will depend to some extent on size of burner tube - that is my understanding anyway. I plan to stick a 1" pipe inside my 1.25" pipe just to test how it would run with a 1" burner tube, just have not had a chance yet. One of those things to do when I get around to it.
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So I mulled it all over and I went for it. I ordered the blower you linked to, it helps that I have a fat gift card left over from Christmas to use at Blacksmith's Depot.. I also happen to have a bit of 3" black pipe on hand including a bell reducer from 3" to 1.5". I'll have to find a 3" elbow. So I will have 2 elbows in total (more restriction) but with 180 cfm pushing through the first elbow then reduced to 1.5" pipe before the 2nd elbow I still kinda think I might still have plenty of air, maybe way more than I need! More would seem to be better than not enough.


KenH said:
Yes, my blower still has decent flow with damper closed completely off. I've fully closed damper and still use speed controller to slow fan even more with gas turned down and hold 1900F AFTER the forge gets hot. After the forge is fully hot (bright orange inside) it burns much better.
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I was just wondering as my air/gas system will be totally vertical and I've read about the potential issues that can occur with propane being heavier than air. Though I do plan to put a N/C gas solenoid inline with the propane feed in case of lost power.


Thanks Ken!
 
You gonna have PLENTY of air, don't worry about restrictions, they just provide good mixing:). As expensive as 3" elbows are, why not just cut the 3" pipe on an angle and make a 90 degree turn - you are a welder.
 
After installing the TC pipe mount this morning I thought I would move on to the castable finally, so I went and re-read the instructions and once again I have more questions than answers.

The part that concerns me is this...

Air Curing
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At temps above 59° keep surface damp or covered for 16-24 hrs or until a hard set has developed. Best results are achieved at temps 86°f-113°f

Keep material from freezing during air cure, and preferably until a dry out can be intiated. Freezing of product will cause structural damage.

Dry Out Schedule.

Heating and cooling refractory structures can be complex. When preformed by the client they themselves are responsible for the end result. The following is given in good faith for guidence only.

Bring forge temp up from Ambient to 250°f slowly(104° per hour). Hold at 250° for 7.5 minutes per 1/4" of Mizzou layer thickness.

Let forge cool completly down.

Bring forge temp up slowly(104° per hour) to 250° then increase forge temp slowly (104° per hour) until you reach 482°f. Hold 482°f for 7.5 minutes per 1/4" of Mizzou coating thickness

Let forge cool completly down.

Bring forge temp up slowly (104° per hour) to 482° then increase forge temp slowly to 1,022°f hold temp for 7.5 minutes per 1/4" thickness of Mizzou coating.

Let forge cool completly down.

Your forge is now ready to use.
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How much time is allowed/acceptable between the air curing and the firing dry schedule? I'm no where near ready for the gas or blower side of this forge, possibly at least a week out or so. My gas and air plumbing will all be dependent upon finalizing my forge cart to which everything will attach. Some of the parts I don't have yet, but at least I think I have everything on order. For instance I'm still waiting on my ceramic tube and connector for the thermocouple. Haven't even got my "big honking" blower yet! ;)

I'm thinking I should move on with the rest of the build and then come back to the castable when I'm geared up for flame on?

Seems the safest bet and it doesn't appear that I have anything to lose by waiting. Any thoughts?
 
Do you plan to leave the TC pipe that long? One comment - Not sure it matters at all, but I brought my TC tip out to mid point of the forge interior rather than it coming out right at the top along side the burner. I guess if I wanted the TC tip located some place other than the middle, close to the bottom where the billet would actually be located would be good. It would be interesting sometime to stick another TC in to check temps at both places.
 
Boy, this is where we NEED Ed (or somebody else who has more experience) to chime in on curing. I'm not sure about that Mizzou stuff. I don't think it really matters how long it air cures before heat curing. You might put a space heater in front of forge body blowing thru the interior to help with drying. You could monitor the temp with the TC/PID while the heater is going. I used Kast-O-Lite which has similar curing directions.

I guess just follow directions as best you can?
 
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