Need help with hidden tang size.

[coachcampana]

So, I'm making my father a stag handle knife for fathers day. I had some very special Damascus steel made for this. More on that later.

My issue is this. The steel is almost 1.5 inches wide, 1/8 thick. The antler price I'd like to use looks massive in comparison. So before i go chopping up an awesome antler, I'd like to check in with those of you who know better
I do have a whole bag of antlers to pick from, but this felt the best in my hand. I'm just afraid the handle is going to be so much larger around than the knife I make for it, width wise. May look goofy.

Second question, how long do you all recommend making the tang? Same length as the blade?


I do plan on using some other stacked materials in the handle on top of the antler.

I just had to wait before I started cutting!


Thanks for reading guys.

.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[Doug Lester]

That's a great piece of antler that you have there. As far as the tang length goes, measure the width of your hand. On my hand width is 3.5". A tang of that length would put the whole thing under my hand. Reducing it to 2.5" would put must of the tang under my hand; enough to be supported by the first three fingers. That's also plenty short to be drill out the handle with a standard drill bit. I've made tangs longer than that, like 6" to go into an 8" handle on a seax but I had to drill the channel with a progression of bits and it wasn't fun to burn in.

As far as the width goes, you may have to shape the forward end of the to make the size match. You are also probably going to need to put something over the end to conceal where you had to drill out the pith and fill with epoxy.

Hopefully, someone who has used antler more than I have will chime in.

Doug

 

[C Craft]

My understanding of what you are asking leads me to believe you are talking about a hidden tang that will not be a thru tang. Meaning the handle will be held by epoxy and or a pin. In a case like that I like to make the tang be about an inch shy of the handle!

If you are planning a butt cap then by all means make it about an inch longer the handle to allow for threading, You can always cut it off but it is a PITA when it comes out too short. I mean their are ways to fix that but there is no need for a fix when done with forethought!

As for the antler, it looks large and kinda short as for the use-able piece. Too address the length you did say, " I do plan on using some other stacked materials in the handle on top of the antler"!

So as for the length, the stack material will probable make the length work out OK!

I still feel the size of that particular antler may be too large in diameter. You can always dress it down on the end that meets the guard or bolster but if the diameter is too large it will still look wrong. Make a to scale drawing of the knife and then you will be able to see if the size of the antler looks too large. But I suspect based on what I can see from pics I would say it is too large in diameter! IMO

 

[mrknives]

That piece is a great looking piece but I would set it aside and find you a smaller diameter.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Darrin Sanders]

No matter what materials you choose or construction type you use the Ricasso and the front of the handle should be the same width from top to bottom. You need them to be the same to keep the "flow" going as your eye goes from the blade to the handle or vice versa. Just imagine the same knife with no guard and you'll see what I mean.
Also, a good rule of thumb on tang length is 4/5 of the handle length. So a 5" handle should have a 4" tang.
That is a nice piece of material. It has the potential to be a really nice knife. Good luck and post some pics when finished.

 

[coachcampana]

Thanks for all the responses. Huge help in here! I got my blade roughed in.

I'm just going through the antlers I have trying to find the best one. Maybe I should thin my tang a little more? It goes from about a half inch down to just a hair over a quarter inch from top to bottom.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[coachcampana]

I think photos 3 and 5 from the top down may be my best bet. It won't be all antler, but then I can just use some other wood and spacer material in there.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[Freds Edge]

This is one of my earlier knives I did for my brother in law , the tang runs to about an inch of the handle end . The twist of the antler makes the handle lay very nicely in the hand.

 

[wall e]

Coach, antler is easy to use just remember the shop will smell of burnt hair for a while. That said depending on what you want to add to the blade colored spacers,brass,copper,stainless can be used along with leather as spacers to ease the transition from guard to handle like this,

Antler is easy to drill out and shape inside for the tang, also it is easy to screw up and carve out too much or drill through because of a curve in the antler. Decide if your going to use a mechanical (pin) and/or chemical (epoxy) to affix the handle to the blade.
Find the section that is the best fit in the hand and isn't too big to dwarf the blade. Some times I have found tines fit better than crowns in the hand.
If you use Elk antler DO NOT TRY AND DRIVE IT ON THE TANG. I destroyed a perfect handle by trying to drive the antler onto the tang. Deer antler can be driven on gently but Elk will split like a chunk of straight grained cordwood in a wood splitter.
That said 3 is nice and straight looks to be comfortable in the hand and about the right diameter to be a simple fit and finish. 5 has a bit of curve and the eye guard also adds a bit of work to either cut off and smooth or implement into the design of the handle.
Take each one and try to hold long enough to skin a buck and figure out if its a comfortable fit or not.

Also Ed has some great tips on doing the guards on hidden tangs the only advice I can give is don't get too eager to get the opening to fit when filing it out or driving it on. Soft metals will split or you may have to remake the guard because it was over cut for the opening. Guilty!!!! 3x

 

[coachcampana]

Thanks Wall e. I picked my antler, and I think I made the right choice. Now Im debating between cocobolo or locust.
Alternating red and black g10 will be topped off with a copper guard.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[wall e]

I say locust, you can also use a piece of leather to make up the slight gap in the materials that arent perfectly flat

 

[coachcampana]

I say locust, you can also use a piece of leather to make up the slight gap in the materials that arent perfectly flat

Good call on the leather. I'm going to start fitting this up and heat treat the blades. Thanks again for the help.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[wall e]

Not a problem. Glad to help.

 

[coachcampana]

Annnnd....I removed too much material on the guard. It's tighter than tight, but on either side of the blade, it's just a mess. I don't think there is any fixing that. Time to make another. Anyone ever use g10 or micarta for their gaurds?

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[Freds Edge]

G10 makes for a very nice guard and is very tough , it does not go well with all blades but when it works it looks good.

 

[Rudy Joly]

Not sayin its the right thing to do, but if you're up against the wall...

If the guard is tight and functional, a decorative sheild or plate in front of it could get you out of that jam. Let JB weld fill the voids, make sure your fit is 'perfect' on the sheild. I haven't done it personally but know a few who have. lol. Personally, I'd reconsider using plastic (g-10) with such a nice piece of antler. JMHO.


Rudy

 

[coachcampana]

Rudy, I think you're saving me a ton of work. I never thought about a way to fix that. I like the idea. Any other tips? This is awesome.

Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[Rudy Joly]

One potential problem I can see is using that thin floppy leather(?) as a transition between the antler and the other solid materials. It shouldn't be used as an excuse for a crappy fit. It won't happen tomorrow or the next day but the leather WILL shrink and dry out some time down the line. I do a good amount of stacked leather and found out the hard way. Just using epoxy won't saturate the leather. In this case I'd saturate the leather in poly-urethane and let dry nice and flat before using it. It will still retain flexibility for gap filling but be somewhat 'stabilized'. I usually let thin leather sit in the poly for a couple days under vacuum, but vacuum isn't critical for a couple spacers. Poly also has the bonus of polishing up to a nice glossy finish and not getting that hairy look on the leather from sanding.

You asked.

Rudy

 

[coachcampana]

The fit isn't crappy, I just figured, I have some leather, I'll use it. I'll just take it out because I really don't plan on doing all the work required for it to not fail down the road.


Sent from my XT1565 using Tapatalk

 

[John Wilson]

the great feature of black micarta is that black epoxy fills any tiny gaps and blends in beautifully. the finished fit looks seamless.




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk