new Logo

Smallshop

Smallshop

KNIFE MAKER
So, I've been sketching logos for a couple months. I couldn't decide whether to etch, or scratch engrave, pantograph/machine, or stamp. I finally realized after looking at a LOT of knife logos that:

1)I didn't want to tackle the learning curve of etching. And I've seen enough problematic things with some of the guys attempts here to think it's a breeze. I'd like to just focus on blade making and heat treating for a while.

2)Scratching with a diamond requires the same pantograph or machining skills. I don't care for the lower visibility.

3) Stamping really didn't make sense to me as I feel it's more appropriate on a forged blade. On a stock removal blade it doesn't make sense to me to heat a blade just to stamp it. I don't plan on forging for a long time.

4) I decided that machining with a 1/32 carbide ball end mill would probably create a nice Logo. So I finished my design and then simulated in a CAM program to see what it looked like engraved. The simulation is set at pretty low resolution but you can get any idea. I went with a ball end mill as I did not want to introduce any stress areas that a square endmill might cause. In toolmaking an inside square corner is frowned upon on something you're going to heat treat.

So here it is greatly magnified. the actual size is .56 tall and .43 wide. The HK stand for Hauser Knives. I went with that over my name or initials. I have two boys that want to learn this.... so they can take over if I get tired/croak/do something new without having to change Logos.

cut logo.jpg

Let me know what you guys think. Concerns, critiques, questions, etc appreciated.

Thanks,
Ted
 
I like it overall and love that you want to machine it in but I do suggest you look at possible Logo/trademark infringement with Hockler & Koch Also know as H&K firearms & knives etc.. I think they use HK also? You might want to check into it.

They are a big company that could bury a little guy like one of us with court costs and the like.

Is it H Knives are HK your initials ?? Don't mean to be the bearer of bad news. Just sayin!
 
I don't think it is a trademark infringement as my logo is quite a bit different than theirs. But if someone has some experience in this area I'll sure listen. After reading Laurence's post I thought I better check it out.......I don't think Heckler & Koch will give me grief. Now Handy-Klenz might be another story....LOL!
heckler and koch.pngcut logo.jpg4.jpg5.jpg6.jpganother hk.jpghandi klenz.png
 
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Smallshop,
Its always good to be on the side of caution. All the other logos but one have additional words etc and they don't make knives!
Just you and that little company HK. It's your deal and if you want to go for it that's your prerogative. Just the cost of showing up in court with a Rep when i was starting could have killed me at the time.

There was Rhino linings and Rhino records and nether of them made knives. I wish you well!
 
I was involved with a communications company called "QuestStar Communications Group" about 10 years ago. A big company with just the Qwest in there name in the same field went after every company that sounded like them. Large battle. My guys settled after months of battling. No one really won that one. This big company is still around, QuestStar is long gone.

Better safe than sorry, good Trademark attorneys cost thousands of dollars and it could get nasty. JMHO
 
Thanks guys,

you're both making good points. The real issue is not whether you can defend it in court. The real issue is making sure you never go to court. Under those 8 guidelines I would be defensible. I think 2 and 3 are where I might run afoul.

  1. Strength of the mark
  2. Proximity of the goods
  3. Similarity of the marks
  4. Evidence of actual confusion
  5. Marketing channels used
  6. Type of goods and the degree of care likely to be exercised by the purchaser
  7. Defendant's intent in selecting the mark
  8. Likelihood of expansion of the product lines[SUP][5[/SUP]
[SUP]

I doubt asking permission would be worth the bother. A legal team would just say no. I'm small enough potatoes that they possibly wouldn't want to go after me if I just used it anyway. But, if I use the logo for say 5 years and build a brand identity and THEN they go after me that would hurt a small business pretty bad.

maybe its back to the drawing board,(literally, LOL)[/SUP]
 
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If a company feels like their rights are being infringed the most likely first step would be for them to issue a cease and desist order. Failure to comply on your part is where things get expensive.
 
I'm going to play with some of the other logos I've sketched up. I'll simulate one for machining and see what you all think. I don't even want to invest time in something that'll generate a cease and desist order.

I appreciate all the input.
 
Neat logo, but I have no idea what the letters stand for. If I were a guy who spotted your work from a second or third hand owner and wanted to contact you about making me a knife I wouldn't know where to start or who made the knife. Does Harvey Keitel make knives? Howard Keeney? Etc.
 
cell phone picture....to....internet.....answer in prolly less than 10 minutes. Or google HK knife. There isn't much I can't find online with little info to go on but I do get your point. And you are correct..... It shouldn't be work to find a maker.

About now the other guys have me convinced to ditch that logo. I'm working on one that will probably just be my last name. That would also take care of not knowing who the maker is by the logo.
 
Okay....there is another Hauser Custom Knives in Kentucky. ( I really like his work too. VERY clean.) His stamp is real clean and simple.
kentucky hauser knife.jpg

I plan on calling mine Hauser Knives. I am staying away from the "custom" as I will be doing some machining and I sense that for many the word "custom" means handmade (whatever that really means with a super expensive knife grinder sittin' there....). So, I made another logo that hopefully doesn't raise any issues. I am also including the Mauser logo as every gun nut I have ever met has usually said something to the effect, "Hauser?....spelled just like Mauser...." I thought of this after I designed this logo and was ticked off at how similar they still are....sheesh. May not be an issue. I don't even know if mauser is still in business....better go check I guess....

Let me know what you think. Logo is just over 7/8 long and 1/4 high. I also put it on a discarded blade design so you get an idea of scale.


mauser.jpgnew logo.jpgnew logo on blade.jpg
 
Maybe try changing your name to something like Rvjdfllcd75kg. I bet no one has that covered, lol.

Seriously, I like the new one even better. I'm interested in the application process and how it looks on a blade.
 
Thanks Jon....Lol. Yeah that name should be available.

here's the rub. A small endmill will really like to break on toolsteel. Also since it is a ball mill the material has to be dead parallel in the vise. A couple of thousandths out of parallel will make it look goofy. Then, unlike etching I can't really do it on anything other than flat so the logo can start to drive the knife design. That was why I liked the two letters.....very small flat needed. There is a way to mill down into a hollow grind or flat taper if I can measure it accurately enough but I've never done it so I don't know how difficult it is.

I'm using ground stock so that is a help. The yellow logo is a cam simulation. Usually what I machine looks a wee bit better than the simulation.

I thought I had it licked with the first one. I didn't realize I was starting a "Logo WIP". I really appreciate guys speaking up even when I'm not listening too well. I wanted that first one pretty bad.....
 
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I feel your pain small shop after a lot of debate I have finally settled on a mark myself.

Sent from my SM-P600 using Tapatalk
 
Justin....all of yours were excellent. But hey, it's not something you want to change every week so picking the right one does require thought. I do think having USA on it is a good idea but now I feel like my logo's growing in size so I'll probably just use "Hauser".
 
Here's what I finally came up with. I ditched the curves to look less "Mauser-ish" (yes they're still in business). I don't know how well the USA will turn out. I ordered some 1/32 ball endmills at almost $20 each. So this either works well or I'll become an advocate of etching! let me know how this looks to you. I'm hoping this might be my last go round. I want to cut a tester tomorrow.
cut no arc.jpg
 
I like the newer one as well, but just because the other Hauser isn't as big time as HK, doesn't mean you won't run into the same problem at some point. It might not be as expensive a deal, but who knows. If you're both local or have your own regions and stay pretty separated, it won't be as big a deal. I'd also stay away from making anything that looks similar to the other Hauser.

As someone who works in and has studied copyright with a little trademark thrown in there, I promise you the first idea with HK is not a good idea. I can tell you that from my experience, it's WAY to close for comfort with a big international company like that. The thing that get's looked at more than any other is whether the products are confusable. And I would say in this case, that's almost certain.

I'm not trying to be discouraging, just to give a little more insight. It would just stink to have to change your brand or fight it in court after making a name for yourself.
 
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